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From: <> On Behalf Of Pamela Dominguez
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2022 5:56 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Coffee makers?


I usually use the accessibility number to help me, because things seem to keep changing on the site.  Pam.


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From: Marda
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2022 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Coffee makers?


Well I called their accessibility number once because I was going to

start ordering from there and had some kind of trouble with setting up

an account.  I don't know what the trouble was but when I called the

posted accessibility number the person told me that they were only for

accessibility using alexa and I was on a windows pc and the person said

she didn't know anything about windows pcs.  That was very

disappointing.  Later another blind person told me that no that number

wasn't just for alexa users.  I know sometimes you can have a bad

experience even with a company that is generally good so I may try again

at some point since it is easy enough to access and find all the neat

stuff they have. Then again who knows?  If I get good at using the site

and start ordering a bunch of stuff I might get addicted.  lol.  Just

kidding.  It's worth checking into further.




On 11/18/2022 7:10 PM, Gene wrote:

> I've ordered now and then from Amazon and I haven't found

> accessibility issues using the main site.  Amazon also has a

> disability number posted right on the home page and perhaps on pages

> where you order products.  I called them to help with a possible

> delivery issue and they were helpful.

> It seems to me that years ago, the NFB may have sued them to make

> their site more accessible.  Based on the small number of times I've

> ordered, I don't think any conclusions should be reached without

> comments from others.

> Gene

> On 11/18/2022 6:45 PM, Marda wrote:

>> And Amazon is supposed to be concerned about accessibility.  they

>> have a blind guy working there in their accessibility department. I

>> read an article about him. His name is Joshua Miel.  (Don't know if

>> that last name is spelled right.)  I don't do a lot of ordering from

>> amazon so didn't know there were a lot of accessibility issues except

>> i have heard that sometimes some people have needed help where

>> they'll have to get someone to put the items in their cart which is

>> unfortunate.  I have heard of other sites too that have versions of

>> the site that are supposed to be more accessible but often they have

>> fewer features and I agree that's not right. So if you are

>> dissatisfied with amazon's services i guess you'll have to get a

>> lawyer and launch a lawsuit.  Good luck.


>> Marda


>> On 11/18/2022 6:10 PM, Gene Warner wrote:

>>> Yeah, Amazon is attempting to do the same thing by telling screen

>>> reader users that they should go to this more accessible version of

>>> their site. The problem is that even this supposedly accessible site

>>> has accessibility problems, not to mention that a lot of features

>>> and services that are available on their main site are not available

>>> on their accessible site.


>>> And here I thought that segregation was banned or made illegal in

>>> the US.


>>> Maybe somebody needs to remind Amazon of that little factoid, or

>>> better yet, somebody needs to sue Amazon for discrimination.


>>> Gene...



>>> On 11/18/2022 7:04 PM, Marda wrote:

>>>> Well I never did like domino's pizza much but if they actually do

>>>> change and make things accessible I cwould consider patronizing

>>>> them as a reward for their changing.   I went online to Little

>>>> Caesar's pizza last week because there is one near our house and

>>>> their website wasn't accessible but I found that they are doing

>>>> what domino's did they are giving a phone number to call and saying

>>>> if you're having difficulty because you're using a screen reader

>>>> then call this certain number. Well I would consider doing that if

>>>> they were in the process of making their site more accessible but I

>>>> don't know what the situation is and I don't think they should

>>>> provide the number without working to make the website accessible

>>>> as well.  I have noticed similar problems with some other local

>>>> restaurants.  A phone number is all right but you can't peruse a

>>>> menu and think about your choices like you can on a website and so

>>>> it's not the same level of qaccessibility. It's almost like they're

>>>> saying ok you can have access but it's not at the same level.  It's

>>>> sort of like the old "separate but equal" thing in education of

>>>> black people in the south in the US.  They had segragated schools

>>>> at one point, even when I was a child. Often the schools for the

>>>> African Americans were inferior.  They got less money, less

>>>> qualified staff  and so on.  Some of these companies are doing

>>>> similar things to people with disabilities, like us blind people,

>>>> by providing a level of accessibility that is different.  It's

>>>> really not equal.


>>>> Marda


>>>> On 11/18/2022 5:35 PM, Gene Warner wrote:

>>>>> Like Dominoes Pizza, they actually went to court seeking to be

>>>>> exempt from ever having to make their web site accessible. Because

>>>>> of that I will never patronize them.


>>>>> Gene...



>>>>> On 11/18/2022 6:28 PM, Marda wrote:

>>>>>> Yes I had forgotten about that.  I shouldn't have though because

>>>>>> last week I got very annoyed because there was a person in our

>>>>>> church who uses a wheelchair and the doors in the rest rooms

>>>>>> aren't big enough for her chair.  So she asked about if the

>>>>>> church would do anything about making their buildings more

>>>>>> accessible. She was told that the church didn't have the money

>>>>>> right now. Well given our church's financial situation I

>>>>>> understand that. But what annoyed me was that the person then

>>>>>> pointed out that because the church had been built before ADA

>>>>>> they had been grandfathered in and legally weren't required to

>>>>>> make their facilities accessible.  That to me is like a slap in

>>>>>> the face to a person who needs accommodations.  It is not going

>>>>>> to be very welcoming to a prospective new attendee or member

>>>>>> either.  It's one thing to say right now we don't have the money

>>>>>> but when we get the money we will do it or whatever but I don't

>>>>>> know.  I know about places that were exempt from accessibility

>>>>>> regulations because they are old and/or historic places and I

>>>>>> know about the law that says ADA doesn'thave to apply if it would

>>>>>> fundamentally alter a program.  I know there are times when we

>>>>>> have to be realistic and deal with the fact that some things just

>>>>>> aren't accessible. But it's almost like some people are either

>>>>>> proud of the fact that they don't have to deal with the

>>>>>> accessibility laws or they just are very defensive or just don't

>>>>>> care.  For people like that I hope they are someday in a position

>>>>>> where they will need accessibility services or someone close to

>>>>>> them will and then maybe they'll have a little more empathy.


>>>>>> Marda


>>>>>> On 11/18/2022 2:07 PM, Jude DaShiell wrote:

>>>>>>> The A.D.A. does cover private homes. Code has A.D.A.

>>>>>>> requirements in it

>>>>>>> for new homes.  Homes get built for people with disabilities

>>>>>>> with A.D.A.

>>>>>>> ramps and other internal accommodations.  These could not be

>>>>>>> built at all

>>>>>>> without supporting regulations in those building codes.




>>>>>>> Jude <jdashiel at panix dot com> "There are four boxes to be

>>>>>>> used in

>>>>>>> defense of liberty:

>>>>>>>   soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."

>>>>>>> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)


>>>>>>> .


>>>>>>> On Fri, 18 Nov 2022, Gene Warner wrote:


>>>>>>>> As far as I know the ADA primarily concerns public spaces. If

>>>>>>>> that's true it

>>>>>>>> doesn't reach into private homes so home appliances aren't

>>>>>>>> covered.


>>>>>>>> The only thing I've heard about home devices is that there is

>>>>>>>> legislation that

>>>>>>>> if passed will require manufacturers of medical devices

>>>>>>>> intended for home use,

>>>>>>>> like CPAP machines design them to be fully accessible.


>>>>>>>> Gene...



>>>>>>>> On 11/18/2022 2:54 PM, Marda wrote:

>>>>>>>>> Yes that is a problem with Hamilton Beach which is a shame

>>>>>>>>> because they used

>>>>>>>>> to make that really nice talking microwave that I still have

>>>>>>>>> but they

>>>>>>>>> discontinued it.  I heard there were problems with it just

>>>>>>>>> stopping

>>>>>>>>> operation and that a lot of people had problems with it but

>>>>>>>>> the one I've had

>>>>>>>>> has worked for many years and I know others who had similar

>>>>>>>>> experiences.  I

>>>>>>>>> wonder if something happened where someone with a disability

>>>>>>>>> sued them or

>>>>>>>>> something or if they are just being overly cautious. It seems

>>>>>>>>> like legally

>>>>>>>>> people should be able to challenge that and require them to

>>>>>>>>> remove that

>>>>>>>>> statement or in other ways make their appliances more

>>>>>>>>> accessible but I don't

>>>>>>>>> know enough about the entirety of the ADA and later amendments

>>>>>>>>> to know if

>>>>>>>>> that area is even addressed since mostly what I've heard about

>>>>>>>>> ADA access

>>>>>>>>> laws deals with education, employment, transportation,

>>>>>>>>> communications etc.

>>>>>>>>> but I've never heard kitchen appliances addressed directly as

>>>>>>>>> far as laws

>>>>>>>>> are concerned.  It seems like they may not be because there

>>>>>>>>> are certainly

>>>>>>>>> tons of appliances around that are not very easily accessible.


>>>>>>>>> Marda


>>>>>>>>> On 11/18/2022 1:30 PM, Gene Warner wrote:

>>>>>>>>>> Last time I checked, Hamilton Beach makes a lot of different

>>>>>>>>>> types of

>>>>>>>>>> coffee makers, so you'll have to be more specific to be of

>>>>>>>>>> any help.


>>>>>>>>>> Plus Hamilton Beach intentionally excludes the visually

>>>>>>>>>> impaired (among

>>>>>>>>>> others) when they design their products as evidenced by this

>>>>>>>>>> statement

>>>>>>>>>> being in all of their product manuals.


>>>>>>>>>> "This appliance is not intended for use by persons (including

>>>>>>>>>> children)

>>>>>>>>>> with reduced physical, sensory, or mental capabilities"


>>>>>>>>>> So I will not buy any of their products.


>>>>>>>>>> Gene...



>>>>>>>>>> On 11/18/2022 1:51 PM, Nancy Shackelford wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>> Hamilton Beach! There are 2 different models, but both are

>>>>>>>>>>> definitely

>>>>>>>>>>> accessible. Bottom button is stronger coffee and top button

>>>>>>>>>>> is weaker

>>>>>>>>>>> coffee.

>>>>>>>>>>> Nance


>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 18, 2022 at 12:11 PM Gene Warner

>>>>>>>>>>> <genewarner3@...

>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:genewarner3@...>> wrote:


>>>>>>>>>>>      Hi everyone!


>>>>>>>>>>>      This is not exactly a tech item unless you consider the

>>>>>>>>>>> ones that have

>>>>>>>>>>>      touch screens on them. I am looking for a single cup

>>>>>>>>>>> coffee maker that

>>>>>>>>>>>      is blind friendly and makes a decent cup of coffee. The

>>>>>>>>>>> one I have

>>>>>>>>>>>      right

>>>>>>>>>>>      now makes coffee that is somewhat weak. It could make

>>>>>>>>>>> stronger

>>>>>>>>>>>      coffee if

>>>>>>>>>>>      its grounds cup was bigger.


>>>>>>>>>>>      I don't want K-cups because they are expensive and

>>>>>>>>>>> K-cups can only

>>>>>>>>>>> brew

>>>>>>>>>>>      about six ounces of coffee per cup and I'd like to be

>>>>>>>>>>> able to brew

>>>>>>>>>>>      about

>>>>>>>>>>>      14 ounces to fill a travel mug.


>>>>>>>>>>>      Any suggestions would be very much appreciated.


>>>>>>>>>>>      Thanks!

>>>>>>>>>>>      Gene...








>>>>>>>>>>> --

>>>>>>>>>>> Nancy Shackelford --Walk On Faith And Trust In Love -

>>>>>>>>>>> Michael Reid--






>>>>>>>>>> .














>>>>>>> .


























>> .