Apple vs Windows?


enes sarıbaş
 

Gene,

This is why  there  are two concepts, accessibility and usability. Making something accessible doesn't necesarily mean it is usable. For example, if it takes 20 keystrokes to achieve an action as opposed to  two, that is technically accessible, but not very usable. Also, didn't know about groupings. That is a good thing to know.

On 11/21/2020 4:56 PM, Gene wrote:
That is factually incorrect.  it isn't a matter of opinion.  Accessibility doesn't mean convenient.  It means that things can be reached from the keyboard, that they speak, and can be activated from the keyboard.

And as far as reaching things from the keyboard conveniently in ribbons is concerned, in my tutorial, I said that people who intend to use a certain ribbon command often remember the keyboard sequence, just as they do in menus.  And if you know the commands control right arrow and control left arrow to move by grouping, you can often get to what you want if you don't know where it is with reasonable efficiency.

If, for example, I am looking for reply to all in the ribbon version of Windows live mail, if I move by grouping, I can use control right arrow to move until I get to the respond grouping. That is logically where reply commands would be.  I then tab to reply to all if that is what I want.  If I stop when I get to the grouping, I will probably be on reply.

A lot of ribbons have far more items in them than a single menu. Moving by groupings significantly helps with that problem because you don't have to tab or shift tab by every item in the menu.  You move through groupings until you get to the one that logically would be expected to have whatever command or adjustment you are looking for.

If you want to say that menus are more convenient, that's a matter I won't argue, it’s a personal preference and I don't have much opinion.  But when it comes to accessibility, ribbons are accessible.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: enes sarıbaş
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2020 4:43 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Apple vs Windows?

Gene,

While ribbons are more accessible than people give them credit for,
there is absolutely no doubt that menu bars were vastly superior in
terms of accessibility. Ribbons seemed to be designed with the mouse in
mind.

On 11/19/2020 12:49 PM, goshawk on horseback wrote:
no, I haven't, and find them a complete pane, as I just can't figure out how to find things easily in the flaming things.

Simon


----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene" <gsasner@gmail.com>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 4:04 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Apple vs Windows?


Did you see my tutorial on ribbons?  I can't say how you will find them if you haven't seen it and now do, but in the majority of cases, people have a lot of probems witgh ribbons because they haven't been properly taught them or havenn't seen good instructional material, if any.  In essense, and it isn't quite this simple, but in essence, ribbons are like menus but differently organized.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: goshawk on horseback
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 9:45 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Apple vs Windows?

would definitely agree about the time to figure out another OS.
I was recently looking to possibly get away from windows, as I am not happy
with the way it is going with all these ribbon menus and so on, so thought
about going the mac rout. only to find, that unlike windows, one can't even
do the basics with out knowing a good few 3 key plus combinations. so would
say that there is a lot more to have to spend time figuring out with the
mac, to do anything at all with it, where as windows is certainly a bit
easier from that point.

as for the mobile side of things, I use both iPhone and android, and would
say that once one is used to using a touch screen, that is a good half the
battle. over all, I probably prefer the iPhone, but do prefer the android as
a media device, as getting stuff on and off of it is a lot easier, as it can
be done with standard windows explorer, rather than the messing about with
iTunes, to get stuff on or off of the iPhone.

Simon


----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene" <gsasner@gmail.com>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 3:12 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Apple vs Windows?


I'm not sure there is an answer.  for the typical user, I doubt there is a meaningful advantage one way or the other.  I won't use Apple computers because I know Windows and it isn't worth my time and effort learning another operating system when I am already very profficient in one.

there may be some specific uses that are better dealt with in apple computers and some in Windows but I don't think, as I said, that for the typical user, it matters.

Then there is the cost of  Apple computers.  You pay a lot more.

I won't comment on mobile devices.  I haven't used smart mobile devices.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Dave
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 9:08 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Apple vs Windows?

Hello,


For those who have both, or experience with both Systems, Which has the
better support when it comes to over all Accessibility?


Not trying to start World War 8, but I keep noticing lots of articles
and pod casts explaining Apple Accessibility features. this would cover
the Apple Mac, the I-Pad, and the I-Phone.


I don't own an Apple products, but am open to it.  With what seems to be
an increase in articles, over the last year or two, it just had me
wondering how good are the Apple products?


I find all the Operating Systems to be lacking when it comes to
Accessibility.  Seems like we move ahead one or two steps, then take a
step or two back.


I personally use Windows and Android.  have yet to own anything Apple.


Grumpy Dave






























Gene
 

Useability isn't a problem if you know how to use ribbons efficiently. it may be slightly less convenient because command sequences, it appears to me, I haven't really comprehensively compared, seem to often be one or two carachters longer in ribbons. For example, to execute a command, or open a dialog, you might execute a command such as h I m or h o I m. Those are just examples, they don't necessarily reflect actual commands.

The real problem is that a lot of people evidently don't know about groupings who know ribbons rreasonably well, that is my impression, and that there are often a lot more items in a ribbon, which makes remembering carachter sequences more important for commonly used commands. A third problem may be that I don't know how many people know how to use split buttons in ribbons, thus making certain buttons appear to do little or almost nothing when, in reality, they may offer many choices and/or commands.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: enes sarıbaş
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2020 4:59 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Apple vs Windows?

Gene,

This is why there are two concepts, accessibility and usability.
Making something accessible doesn't necesarily mean it is usable. For
example, if it takes 20 keystrokes to achieve an action as opposed to
two, that is technically accessible, but not very usable. Also, didn't
know about groupings. That is a good thing to know.

On 11/21/2020 4:56 PM, Gene wrote:
That is factually incorrect. it isn't a matter of opinion. Accessibility doesn't mean convenient. It means that things can be reached from the keyboard, that they speak, and can be activated from the keyboard.

And as far as reaching things from the keyboard conveniently in ribbons is concerned, in my tutorial, I said that people who intend to use a certain ribbon command often remember the keyboard sequence, just as they do in menus. And if you know the commands control right arrow and control left arrow to move by grouping, you can often get to what you want if you don't know where it is with reasonable efficiency.

If, for example, I am looking for reply to all in the ribbon version of Windows live mail, if I move by grouping, I can use control right arrow to move until I get to the respond grouping. That is logically where reply commands would be. I then tab to reply to all if that is what I want. If I stop when I get to the grouping, I will probably be on reply.

A lot of ribbons have far more items in them than a single menu. Moving by groupings significantly helps with that problem because you don't have to tab or shift tab by every item in the menu. You move through groupings until you get to the one that logically would be expected to have whatever command or adjustment you are looking for.

If you want to say that menus are more convenient, that's a matter I won't argue, it’s a personal preference and I don't have much opinion. But when it comes to accessibility, ribbons are accessible.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: enes sarıbaş
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2020 4:43 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Apple vs Windows?

Gene,

While ribbons are more accessible than people give them credit for,
there is absolutely no doubt that menu bars were vastly superior in
terms of accessibility. Ribbons seemed to be designed with the mouse in
mind.

On 11/19/2020 12:49 PM, goshawk on horseback wrote:
no, I haven't, and find them a complete pane, as I just can't figure out how to find things easily in the flaming things.

Simon


----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene" <gsasner@gmail.com>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 4:04 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Apple vs Windows?


Did you see my tutorial on ribbons? I can't say how you will find them if you haven't seen it and now do, but in the majority of cases, people have a lot of probems witgh ribbons because they haven't been properly taught them or havenn't seen good instructional material, if any. In essense, and it isn't quite this simple, but in essence, ribbons are like menus but differently organized.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: goshawk on horseback
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 9:45 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Apple vs Windows?

would definitely agree about the time to figure out another OS.
I was recently looking to possibly get away from windows, as I am not happy
with the way it is going with all these ribbon menus and so on, so thought
about going the mac rout. only to find, that unlike windows, one can't even
do the basics with out knowing a good few 3 key plus combinations. so would
say that there is a lot more to have to spend time figuring out with the
mac, to do anything at all with it, where as windows is certainly a bit
easier from that point.

as for the mobile side of things, I use both iPhone and android, and would
say that once one is used to using a touch screen, that is a good half the
battle. over all, I probably prefer the iPhone, but do prefer the android as
a media device, as getting stuff on and off of it is a lot easier, as it can
be done with standard windows explorer, rather than the messing about with
iTunes, to get stuff on or off of the iPhone.

Simon


----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene" <gsasner@gmail.com>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 3:12 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Apple vs Windows?


I'm not sure there is an answer. for the typical user, I doubt there is a meaningful advantage one way or the other. I won't use Apple computers because I know Windows and it isn't worth my time and effort learning another operating system when I am already very profficient in one.

there may be some specific uses that are better dealt with in apple computers and some in Windows but I don't think, as I said, that for the typical user, it matters.

Then there is the cost of Apple computers. You pay a lot more.

I won't comment on mobile devices. I haven't used smart mobile devices.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Dave
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 9:08 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Apple vs Windows?

Hello,


For those who have both, or experience with both Systems, Which has the
better support when it comes to over all Accessibility?


Not trying to start World War 8, but I keep noticing lots of articles
and pod casts explaining Apple Accessibility features. this would cover
the Apple Mac, the I-Pad, and the I-Phone.


I don't own an Apple products, but am open to it. With what seems to be
an increase in articles, over the last year or two, it just had me
wondering how good are the Apple products?


I find all the Operating Systems to be lacking when it comes to
Accessibility. Seems like we move ahead one or two steps, then take a
step or two back.


I personally use Windows and Android. have yet to own anything Apple.


Grumpy Dave































enes sarıbaş
 

This is exactly what I mean Gene. I should not have to memorize dozens of sequences to use an interface. That detracts significantly from usability.

On 11/21/2020 5:34 PM, Gene wrote:
Useability isn't a problem if you know how to use ribbons efficiently.  it may be slightly less convenient because command sequences, it appears to me, I haven't really comprehensively compared, seem to often be one or two carachters longer in ribbons.  For example, to execute a command, or open a dialog, you might execute a command such as h I m or h o I m.  Those are just examples, they don't necessarily reflect actual commands.

The real problem is that a lot of people evidently don't know about groupings who know ribbons rreasonably well, that is my impression, and that there are often a lot more items in a ribbon, which makes remembering carachter sequences more important for commonly used commands.  A third problem may be that I don't know how many people know how to use split buttons in ribbons, thus making certain buttons appear to do little or almost nothing when, in reality, they may offer many choices and/or commands.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: enes sarıbaş
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2020 4:59 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Apple vs Windows?

Gene,

This is why  there  are two concepts, accessibility and usability.
Making something accessible doesn't necesarily mean it is usable. For
example, if it takes 20 keystrokes to achieve an action as opposed to
two, that is technically accessible, but not very usable. Also, didn't
know about groupings. That is a good thing to know.

On 11/21/2020 4:56 PM, Gene wrote:
That is factually incorrect.  it isn't a matter of opinion.  Accessibility doesn't mean convenient.  It means that things can be reached from the keyboard, that they speak, and can be activated from the keyboard.

And as far as reaching things from the keyboard conveniently in ribbons is concerned, in my tutorial, I said that people who intend to use a certain ribbon command often remember the keyboard sequence, just as they do in menus.  And if you know the commands control right arrow and control left arrow to move by grouping, you can often get to what you want if you don't know where it is with reasonable efficiency.

If, for example, I am looking for reply to all in the ribbon version of Windows live mail, if I move by grouping, I can use control right arrow to move until I get to the respond grouping. That is logically where reply commands would be.  I then tab to reply to all if that is what I want.  If I stop when I get to the grouping, I will probably be on reply.

A lot of ribbons have far more items in them than a single menu. Moving by groupings significantly helps with that problem because you don't have to tab or shift tab by every item in the menu.  You move through groupings until you get to the one that logically would be expected to have whatever command or adjustment you are looking for.

If you want to say that menus are more convenient, that's a matter I won't argue, it’s a personal preference and I don't have much opinion.  But when it comes to accessibility, ribbons are accessible.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: enes sarıbaş
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2020 4:43 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Apple vs Windows?

Gene,

While ribbons are more accessible than people give them credit for,
there is absolutely no doubt that menu bars were vastly superior in
terms of accessibility. Ribbons seemed to be designed with the mouse in
mind.

On 11/19/2020 12:49 PM, goshawk on horseback wrote:
no, I haven't, and find them a complete pane, as I just can't figure out how to find things easily in the flaming things.

Simon


----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene" <gsasner@gmail.com>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 4:04 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Apple vs Windows?


Did you see my tutorial on ribbons?  I can't say how you will find them if you haven't seen it and now do, but in the majority of cases, people have a lot of probems witgh ribbons because they haven't been properly taught them or havenn't seen good instructional material, if any.  In essense, and it isn't quite this simple, but in essence, ribbons are like menus but differently organized.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: goshawk on horseback
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 9:45 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Apple vs Windows?

would definitely agree about the time to figure out another OS.
I was recently looking to possibly get away from windows, as I am not happy
with the way it is going with all these ribbon menus and so on, so thought
about going the mac rout. only to find, that unlike windows, one can't even
do the basics with out knowing a good few 3 key plus combinations. so would
say that there is a lot more to have to spend time figuring out with the
mac, to do anything at all with it, where as windows is certainly a bit
easier from that point.

as for the mobile side of things, I use both iPhone and android, and would
say that once one is used to using a touch screen, that is a good half the
battle. over all, I probably prefer the iPhone, but do prefer the android as
a media device, as getting stuff on and off of it is a lot easier, as it can
be done with standard windows explorer, rather than the messing about with
iTunes, to get stuff on or off of the iPhone.

Simon


----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene" <gsasner@gmail.com>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 3:12 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Apple vs Windows?


I'm not sure there is an answer. for the typical user, I doubt there is a meaningful advantage one way or the other.  I won't use Apple computers because I know Windows and it isn't worth my time and effort learning another operating system when I am already very profficient in one.

there may be some specific uses that are better dealt with in apple computers and some in Windows but I don't think, as I said, that for the typical user, it matters.

Then there is the cost of  Apple computers.  You pay a lot more.

I won't comment on mobile devices.  I haven't used smart mobile devices.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Dave
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 9:08 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Apple vs Windows?

Hello,


For those who have both, or experience with both Systems, Which has the
better support when it comes to over all Accessibility?


Not trying to start World War 8, but I keep noticing lots of articles
and pod casts explaining Apple Accessibility features. this would cover
the Apple Mac, the I-Pad, and the I-Phone.


I don't own an Apple products, but am open to it.  With what seems to be
an increase in articles, over the last year or two, it just had me
wondering how good are the Apple products?


I find all the Operating Systems to be lacking when it comes to
Accessibility.  Seems like we move ahead one or two steps, then take a
step or two back.


I personally use Windows and Android.  have yet to own anything Apple.


Grumpy Dave





































Gene
 

You don't have to. Most people don't use a lot of commands often enough that they memorize them. And groupings makes it possible to move through a ribbon to find what you want with good efficiency, not as much as menus, but good.

And every ribbon program has one menu where a number of common interfaces are found as well as commands.
Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: enes sarıbaş
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2020 5:47 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Apple vs Windows?

This is exactly what I mean Gene. I should not have to memorize dozens
of sequences to use an interface. That detracts significantly from
usability.

On 11/21/2020 5:34 PM, Gene wrote:
Useability isn't a problem if you know how to use ribbons efficiently. it may be slightly less convenient because command sequences, it appears to me, I haven't really comprehensively compared, seem to often be one or two carachters longer in ribbons. For example, to execute a command, or open a dialog, you might execute a command such as h I m or h o I m. Those are just examples, they don't necessarily reflect actual commands.

The real problem is that a lot of people evidently don't know about groupings who know ribbons rreasonably well, that is my impression, and that there are often a lot more items in a ribbon, which makes remembering carachter sequences more important for commonly used commands. A third problem may be that I don't know how many people know how to use split buttons in ribbons, thus making certain buttons appear to do little or almost nothing when, in reality, they may offer many choices and/or commands.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: enes sarıbaş
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2020 4:59 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Apple vs Windows?

Gene,

This is why there are two concepts, accessibility and usability.
Making something accessible doesn't necesarily mean it is usable. For
example, if it takes 20 keystrokes to achieve an action as opposed to
two, that is technically accessible, but not very usable. Also, didn't
know about groupings. That is a good thing to know.

On 11/21/2020 4:56 PM, Gene wrote:
That is factually incorrect. it isn't a matter of opinion. Accessibility doesn't mean convenient. It means that things can be reached from the keyboard, that they speak, and can be activated from the keyboard.

And as far as reaching things from the keyboard conveniently in ribbons is concerned, in my tutorial, I said that people who intend to use a certain ribbon command often remember the keyboard sequence, just as they do in menus. And if you know the commands control right arrow and control left arrow to move by grouping, you can often get to what you want if you don't know where it is with reasonable efficiency.

If, for example, I am looking for reply to all in the ribbon version of Windows live mail, if I move by grouping, I can use control right arrow to move until I get to the respond grouping. That is logically where reply commands would be. I then tab to reply to all if that is what I want. If I stop when I get to the grouping, I will probably be on reply.

A lot of ribbons have far more items in them than a single menu. Moving by groupings significantly helps with that problem because you don't have to tab or shift tab by every item in the menu. You move through groupings until you get to the one that logically would be expected to have whatever command or adjustment you are looking for.

If you want to say that menus are more convenient, that's a matter I won't argue, it’s a personal preference and I don't have much opinion. But when it comes to accessibility, ribbons are accessible.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: enes sarıbaş
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2020 4:43 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Apple vs Windows?

Gene,

While ribbons are more accessible than people give them credit for,
there is absolutely no doubt that menu bars were vastly superior in
terms of accessibility. Ribbons seemed to be designed with the mouse in
mind.

On 11/19/2020 12:49 PM, goshawk on horseback wrote:
no, I haven't, and find them a complete pane, as I just can't figure out how to find things easily in the flaming things.

Simon


----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene" <gsasner@gmail.com>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 4:04 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Apple vs Windows?


Did you see my tutorial on ribbons? I can't say how you will find them if you haven't seen it and now do, but in the majority of cases, people have a lot of probems witgh ribbons because they haven't been properly taught them or havenn't seen good instructional material, if any. In essense, and it isn't quite this simple, but in essence, ribbons are like menus but differently organized.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: goshawk on horseback
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 9:45 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Apple vs Windows?

would definitely agree about the time to figure out another OS.
I was recently looking to possibly get away from windows, as I am not happy
with the way it is going with all these ribbon menus and so on, so thought
about going the mac rout. only to find, that unlike windows, one can't even
do the basics with out knowing a good few 3 key plus combinations. so would
say that there is a lot more to have to spend time figuring out with the
mac, to do anything at all with it, where as windows is certainly a bit
easier from that point.

as for the mobile side of things, I use both iPhone and android, and would
say that once one is used to using a touch screen, that is a good half the
battle. over all, I probably prefer the iPhone, but do prefer the android as
a media device, as getting stuff on and off of it is a lot easier, as it can
be done with standard windows explorer, rather than the messing about with
iTunes, to get stuff on or off of the iPhone.

Simon


----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene" <gsasner@gmail.com>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 3:12 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Apple vs Windows?


I'm not sure there is an answer. for the typical user, I doubt there is a meaningful advantage one way or the other. I won't use Apple computers because I know Windows and it isn't worth my time and effort learning another operating system when I am already very profficient in one.

there may be some specific uses that are better dealt with in apple computers and some in Windows but I don't think, as I said, that for the typical user, it matters.

Then there is the cost of Apple computers. You pay a lot more.

I won't comment on mobile devices. I haven't used smart mobile devices.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Dave
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 9:08 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Apple vs Windows?

Hello,


For those who have both, or experience with both Systems, Which has the
better support when it comes to over all Accessibility?


Not trying to start World War 8, but I keep noticing lots of articles
and pod casts explaining Apple Accessibility features. this would cover
the Apple Mac, the I-Pad, and the I-Phone.


I don't own an Apple products, but am open to it. With what seems to be
an increase in articles, over the last year or two, it just had me
wondering how good are the Apple products?


I find all the Operating Systems to be lacking when it comes to
Accessibility. Seems like we move ahead one or two steps, then take a
step or two back.


I personally use Windows and Android. have yet to own anything Apple.


Grumpy Dave






































Jaffar Sidek
 

Hi.  I actually don't agree.  While ribbons can take a while to get use too, once you get the drift, the experience is as rewarding as it is with menus.  Furthermore, from a design standpoint, ribbons take up less space on the application window while allowing for more items to be displayed on a particular bar.  Menu designs can be quite unweildy and difficult to manage if designed and programmed without thought, and while screen readers tend not to show what actually goes on behind the scenes, an unweildy menu may hide a lot of the application window if not propperly managed, and this will cause accessibility issues for the sighted user, which just goes to show the dilemma when coding and designing for accessibility because access must be considered for the sighted as well.  Cheers!

On 22/11/2020 6:43 am, enes sarıbaş wrote:
Gene,

While ribbons are more accessible than people give them credit for, there is absolutely no doubt that menu bars were vastly superior in terms of accessibility. Ribbons seemed to be designed with the mouse in mind.

On 11/19/2020 12:49 PM, goshawk on horseback wrote:
no, I haven't, and find them a complete pane, as I just can't figure out how to find things easily in the flaming things.

Simon


----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene" <gsasner@gmail.com>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 4:04 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Apple vs Windows?


Did you see my tutorial on ribbons?  I can't say how you will find them if you haven't seen it and now do, but in the majority of cases, people have a lot of probems witgh ribbons because they haven't been properly taught them or havenn't seen good instructional material, if any.  In essense, and it isn't quite this simple, but in essence, ribbons are like menus but differently organized.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: goshawk on horseback
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 9:45 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Apple vs Windows?

would definitely agree about the time to figure out another OS.
I was recently looking to possibly get away from windows, as I am not happy
with the way it is going with all these ribbon menus and so on, so thought
about going the mac rout. only to find, that unlike windows, one can't even
do the basics with out knowing a good few 3 key plus combinations. so would
say that there is a lot more to have to spend time figuring out with the
mac, to do anything at all with it, where as windows is certainly a bit
easier from that point.

as for the mobile side of things, I use both iPhone and android, and would
say that once one is used to using a touch screen, that is a good half the
battle. over all, I probably prefer the iPhone, but do prefer the android as
a media device, as getting stuff on and off of it is a lot easier, as it can
be done with standard windows explorer, rather than the messing about with
iTunes, to get stuff on or off of the iPhone.

Simon


----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene" <gsasner@gmail.com>
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 3:12 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Apple vs Windows?


I'm not sure there is an answer.  for the typical user, I doubt there is a meaningful advantage one way or the other.  I won't use Apple computers because I know Windows and it isn't worth my time and effort learning another operating system when I am already very profficient in one.

there may be some specific uses that are better dealt with in apple computers and some in Windows but I don't think, as I said, that for the typical user, it matters.

Then there is the cost of  Apple computers.  You pay a lot more.

I won't comment on mobile devices.  I haven't used smart mobile devices.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Dave
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 9:08 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Apple vs Windows?

Hello,


For those who have both, or experience with both Systems, Which has the
better support when it comes to over all Accessibility?


Not trying to start World War 8, but I keep noticing lots of articles
and pod casts explaining Apple Accessibility features. this would cover
the Apple Mac, the I-Pad, and the I-Phone.


I don't own an Apple products, but am open to it.  With what seems to be
an increase in articles, over the last year or two, it just had me
wondering how good are the Apple products?


I find all the Operating Systems to be lacking when it comes to
Accessibility.  Seems like we move ahead one or two steps, then take a
step or two back.


I personally use Windows and Android.  have yet to own anything Apple.


Grumpy Dave