Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount


Marco Curralejo
 

Hello everyone,

 

Three years in the making, STRAP is an innovative, wearable device that fits over the chest and is designed to detect any type of obstacle. STRAP’s vast array of sensors work by sending real-time information that detects obstacles at your head, chest, and below your waist - including bumps, holes, and steps, then notifying you with haptic language vibrations. Designed for all ages and shipped globally later this year.

 

At STRAP Technologies we believe autonomy and independence are human rights; not luxuries. Our goal is to be the first replacement of the white cane, giving the visually impaired a long overdue hands free experience.

 

Use code BlindTech strap.tech, for 50% off the current total price of a STRAP device. Preorder today at this discounted price of $250 and pay only $50 at this time to reserve your STRAP. Once STRAP is shipped to you, you will be billed the remaining $200. This offer is just available with this Blind Tech Guys Code.

 

The Blind Tech Guys  are pleased to offer you the above exclusive code and we are delighted to share this with our ever-growing community, so if you are keen to try this product, we encourage you to pre-order it and keep an eye out for a demo of the product to hit your ears sometime soon.

 

Warm regards,

 

Marco Curralejo

 


Gene
 

Isn’t it interesting how the cane is not respected and disparaged because blind people use it?  I don’t see people trying to eliminate cars because unassisted movement is a right and is superior.
 
I’d like to see how expensive this device is.  I’d like to see how long it runs on a charge.  I’d like to see if it gives me information about my nearby environment such as where a doorway is to a building or where there is grass to my left and where that grass is interrupted by a driveway, which may be necessary for me to find with my cane to know where I turn to move toward a building and the counting of driveways and walkways may be necessary for me to know when I’m turning at the right place. 
 
Device after device has been made and they have none of them been widely adopted.  Maybe there is a reason.
 
Blindness is considered a tragedy and the ways blind people do things are often disparaged, guilt by association.  Some ways blind people do things are neutral, some inferior, some superior.  Will it be replaced at some point by something superior?  Who knows.  but its persistence and wide use should give those who chaff at the bit to eliminate it pause.
 
As G.K. Chesterton said:
“Don't ever take a fence down until you know the reason it was put up.”
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 1:39 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount
 

Hello everyone,

 

Three years in the making, STRAP is an innovative, wearable device that fits over the chest and is designed to detect any type of obstacle. STRAP’s vast array of sensors work by sending real-time information that detects obstacles at your head, chest, and below your waist - including bumps, holes, and steps, then notifying you with haptic language vibrations. Designed for all ages and shipped globally later this year.

 

At STRAP Technologies we believe autonomy and independence are human rights; not luxuries. Our goal is to be the first replacement of the white cane, giving the visually impaired a long overdue hands free experience.

 

Use code BlindTech strap.tech, for 50% off the current total price of a STRAP device. Preorder today at this discounted price of $250 and pay only $50 at this time to reserve your STRAP. Once STRAP is shipped to you, you will be billed the remaining $200. This offer is just available with this Blind Tech Guys Code.

 

The Blind Tech Guys are pleased to offer you the above exclusive code and we are delighted to share this with our ever-growing community, so if you are keen to try this product, we encourage you to pre-order it and keep an eye out for a demo of the product to hit your ears sometime soon.

 

Warm regards,

 

Marco Curralejo

 


Nimer Jaber
 

This post is my opinion, and is not affiliated with Strap or any other entity. All opinions in this message are my own.

Gene,

People said the same thing that you're saying about horses, too. And yet, we are now driving cars.

Guide dogs already take away much of what the cane gives you, and dog users are quite content being dog users. With a dog, blind people go around obstacles, they don't interact with every obstacle in their path.

Does it count when a blind person disparages the cane and says that we need more innovation in the space to get rid of the bloody thing? Because I am one of those blind people.

Does it count that I want to be able to travel unencumbered with both hands free?

Does it count if I want to not worry about whether someone trips over my cane and breaks it? Or if the tip flies off the cane?

Does it matter if I don't want to worry about what happens to my upper body because that trusty cane doesn't protect it while I'm walking? Because believe me, running into scaffolding bloody hurts, and yes, I've done it.

Does it matter if I want to be able to actually walk in a straight line? Because, short of tapping against a wall or grass line, there isn't a way to do it with a cane.

Does it matter if I wish to traverse through a crowded downtown area, or any crowded environment without running into many things?

Does it matter if I want to be inconspicuous, and not be asked whether I, a poor blind man, require assistance to wipe my ass? Because that is essentially what happens to every single blind person I know. I am not approached about my work. I am not approached about my appearance. I am not approached about my shoes. I am not approached about anything except my blindness and someone wanting to help me because they think I am making a mistake trying to cross a street.

So, sorry, but we definitely need a cane replacement, in my view, and any blind person disagreeing is, frankly, a complete and utter fool. And, I would ask blind people to support the effort instead of shitting on it, because developers should be encouraged to innovate, not be discouraged by stupid posts like the one I've just read.

Does that mean that Strap will, indeed, replace the cane? I don't know, probably not. But it's a much better attempt than we've seen so far, with others trying to reinvent the cane by making it heavier and adding sensors to it.

So, I would say, support the effort. Stand by and watch, if you wish. But don't get in the way of what is possibly the most progress we've seen in a long time. We have cars that zoom on the roads autonomously. We have planes that can take off and land themselves. We have trains that can do the same, with minimal to no human interaction. We have probes going into deep space sending back pictures of Mars. And yet, the best the blind people can do, is fight to use their canes, and say they're proud of their canes.

I say again, if you don't or can't help, and you don't support the effort, with the nicest and most respectful intent possible, get the hell out of the way, sit down and shut up, and don't stop innovation and progress.

And with that, I will no longer engage in this thread, because I can see that more stupidity will be posted, and more people will come out proud to be carrying a stick.


On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 11:57 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
Isn’t it interesting how the cane is not respected and disparaged because blind people use it?  I don’t see people trying to eliminate cars because unassisted movement is a right and is superior.
 
I’d like to see how expensive this device is.  I’d like to see how long it runs on a charge.  I’d like to see if it gives me information about my nearby environment such as where a doorway is to a building or where there is grass to my left and where that grass is interrupted by a driveway, which may be necessary for me to find with my cane to know where I turn to move toward a building and the counting of driveways and walkways may be necessary for me to know when I’m turning at the right place. 
 
Device after device has been made and they have none of them been widely adopted.  Maybe there is a reason.
 
Blindness is considered a tragedy and the ways blind people do things are often disparaged, guilt by association.  Some ways blind people do things are neutral, some inferior, some superior.  Will it be replaced at some point by something superior?  Who knows.  but its persistence and wide use should give those who chaff at the bit to eliminate it pause.
 
As G.K. Chesterton said:
“Don't ever take a fence down until you know the reason it was put up.”
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 1:39 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount
 

Hello everyone,

 

Three years in the making, STRAP is an innovative, wearable device that fits over the chest and is designed to detect any type of obstacle. STRAP’s vast array of sensors work by sending real-time information that detects obstacles at your head, chest, and below your waist - including bumps, holes, and steps, then notifying you with haptic language vibrations. Designed for all ages and shipped globally later this year.

 

At STRAP Technologies we believe autonomy and independence are human rights; not luxuries. Our goal is to be the first replacement of the white cane, giving the visually impaired a long overdue hands free experience.

 

Use code BlindTech strap.tech, for 50% off the current total price of a STRAP device. Preorder today at this discounted price of $250 and pay only $50 at this time to reserve your STRAP. Once STRAP is shipped to you, you will be billed the remaining $200. This offer is just available with this Blind Tech Guys Code.

 

The Blind Tech Guys are pleased to offer you the above exclusive code and we are delighted to share this with our ever-growing community, so if you are keen to try this product, we encourage you to pre-order it and keep an eye out for a demo of the product to hit your ears sometime soon.

 

Warm regards,

 

Marco Curralejo

 



--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

Thank you, and have a great day!


Gene
 

The car and horse analogy doesn’t apply.  The advantages are obvious of a car.  What advantage does the cane replacement company offer?  Only one, that you can travel hands free.  I don’t consider that worht spending 250 dollars for. 
 
You yourself say that a dog gives you less information about your environment.  People may be satisfied with that and that’s their choice but I really doubt that you are going to find many competent cane users who will substitute a 250 dollar device for a thirty-five dollar device when the 35 dollar device gives them more information.  and people who use a dog may have reasons they are willing to accept less information.  There are reasons people prefer dogs.  But this is not a discussion about replacing dogs with this device.  The device is offered as a replacement for the cane.  I doubt many competent cane users will pay 250 dollars for a device that probably gives them less information. 
 
I have no trouble carrying what I want to carry with one hand using a cane.  I use larger bags.  Others may prefer a back pack.  
 
As far as things like the cane breaking or a tip falling off, I’ve been traveling with canes for about fifty years and such things have almost never happened.  And you have no basis to assume that this device will be as reliable.  What if you forget to charge it.  Is the battery user replaceable?  If not, how much will it cost to replace it? 
 
And any prudent blind person who doesn’t use a dog should be a skilled cane user anyway so that in case of trouble with the device, he/she can switch to a low tech device that works very well while the problem is corrected.  I have an emergency cane.  Having two canes costs me perhaps sixty dollars.  People aren’t going to have two of these devices when they cost 250 dollars. 
 
As I said, I don’t object to a device that informs me about obstacles above the lefvel of the cane.  I do object to the attitude that the cane should be replaced and likely by something inferior. 
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:16 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount
 
This post is my opinion, and is not affiliated with Strap or any other entity. All opinions in this message are my own.
 
Gene,
 
People said the same thing that you're saying about horses, too. And yet, we are now driving cars.
 
Guide dogs already take away much of what the cane gives you, and dog users are quite content being dog users. With a dog, blind people go around obstacles, they don't interact with every obstacle in their path.
 
Does it count when a blind person disparages the cane and says that we need more innovation in the space to get rid of the bloody thing? Because I am one of those blind people.
 
Does it count that I want to be able to travel unencumbered with both hands free?
 
Does it count if I want to not worry about whether someone trips over my cane and breaks it? Or if the tip flies off the cane?
 
Does it matter if I don't want to worry about what happens to my upper body because that trusty cane doesn't protect it while I'm walking? Because believe me, running into scaffolding bloody hurts, and yes, I've done it.
 
Does it matter if I want to be able to actually walk in a straight line? Because, short of tapping against a wall or grass line, there isn't a way to do it with a cane.
 
Does it matter if I wish to traverse through a crowded downtown area, or any crowded environment without running into many things?
 
Does it matter if I want to be inconspicuous, and not be asked whether I, a poor blind man, require assistance to wipe my ass? Because that is essentially what happens to every single blind person I know. I am not approached about my work. I am not approached about my appearance. I am not approached about my shoes. I am not approached about anything except my blindness and someone wanting to help me because they think I am making a mistake trying to cross a street.
 
So, sorry, but we definitely need a cane replacement, in my view, and any blind person disagreeing is, frankly, a complete and utter fool. And, I would ask blind people to support the effort instead of shitting on it, because developers should be encouraged to innovate, not be discouraged by stupid posts like the one I've just read.
 
Does that mean that Strap will, indeed, replace the cane? I don't know, probably not. But it's a much better attempt than we've seen so far, with others trying to reinvent the cane by making it heavier and adding sensors to it.
 
So, I would say, support the effort. Stand by and watch, if you wish. But don't get in the way of what is possibly the most progress we've seen in a long time. We have cars that zoom on the roads autonomously. We have planes that can take off and land themselves. We have trains that can do the same, with minimal to no human interaction. We have probes going into deep space sending back pictures of Mars. And yet, the best the blind people can do, is fight to use their canes, and say they're proud of their canes.
 
I say again, if you don't or can't help, and you don't support the effort, with the nicest and most respectful intent possible, get the hell out of the way, sit down and shut up, and don't stop innovation and progress.
 
And with that, I will no longer engage in this thread, because I can see that more stupidity will be posted, and more people will come out proud to be carrying a stick.
 
On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 11:57 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
Isn’t it interesting how the cane is not respected and disparaged because blind people use it?  I don’t see people trying to eliminate cars because unassisted movement is a right and is superior.
 
I’d like to see how expensive this device is.  I’d like to see how long it runs on a charge.  I’d like to see if it gives me information about my nearby environment such as where a doorway is to a building or where there is grass to my left and where that grass is interrupted by a driveway, which may be necessary for me to find with my cane to know where I turn to move toward a building and the counting of driveways and walkways may be necessary for me to know when I’m turning at the right place. 
 
Device after device has been made and they have none of them been widely adopted.  Maybe there is a reason.
 
Blindness is considered a tragedy and the ways blind people do things are often disparaged, guilt by association.  Some ways blind people do things are neutral, some inferior, some superior.  Will it be replaced at some point by something superior?  Who knows.  but its persistence and wide use should give those who chaff at the bit to eliminate it pause.
 
As G.K. Chesterton said:
“Don't ever take a fence down until you know the reason it was put up.”
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 1:39 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount
 

Hello everyone,

 

Three years in the making, STRAP is an innovative, wearable device that fits over the chest and is designed to detect any type of obstacle. STRAP’s vast array of sensors work by sending real-time information that detects obstacles at your head, chest, and below your waist - including bumps, holes, and steps, then notifying you with haptic language vibrations. Designed for all ages and shipped globally later this year.

 

At STRAP Technologies we believe autonomy and independence are human rights; not luxuries. Our goal is to be the first replacement of the white cane, giving the visually impaired a long overdue hands free experience.

 

Use code BlindTech strap.tech, for 50% off the current total price of a STRAP device. Preorder today at this discounted price of $250 and pay only $50 at this time to reserve your STRAP. Once STRAP is shipped to you, you will be billed the remaining $200. This offer is just available with this Blind Tech Guys Code.

 

The Blind Tech Guys are pleased to offer you the above exclusive code and we are delighted to share this with our ever-growing community, so if you are keen to try this product, we encourage you to pre-order it and keep an eye out for a demo of the product to hit your ears sometime soon.

 

Warm regards,

 

Marco Curralejo

 

 
 
--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
 
Thank you, and have a great day!


Gene
 

And I just thought of another reason that this device is a bad idea.  It is safer to be seen and known to be a blind person.  Perhaps you will get assistance more easily when you want it such as when crossing a street with turning arrows and a lot of high speed traffic.  [Perhaps you will have an easier time getting directions.  When I walk into a store, if service people see the cane, they will offer help.  How will they know I am blind as easily and as quickly if it isn’t made clear by a cane or a dog?  If you don’t have a cane, people won’t know you are blind.  This strikes me as an attempt to hide a person’s blindness.  I don’t want to hide it.  I am what I am and it shouldn’t be hidden.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:39 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount
 
The car and horse analogy doesn’t apply.  The advantages are obvious of a car.  What advantage does the cane replacement company offer?  Only one, that you can travel hands free.  I don’t consider that worht spending 250 dollars for. 
 
You yourself say that a dog gives you less information about your environment.  People may be satisfied with that and that’s their choice but I really doubt that you are going to find many competent cane users who will substitute a 250 dollar device for a thirty-five dollar device when the 35 dollar device gives them more information.  and people who use a dog may have reasons they are willing to accept less information.  There are reasons people prefer dogs.  But this is not a discussion about replacing dogs with this device.  The device is offered as a replacement for the cane.  I doubt many competent cane users will pay 250 dollars for a device that probably gives them less information. 
 
I have no trouble carrying what I want to carry with one hand using a cane.  I use larger bags.  Others may prefer a back pack.  
 
As far as things like the cane breaking or a tip falling off, I’ve been traveling with canes for about fifty years and such things have almost never happened.  And you have no basis to assume that this device will be as reliable.  What if you forget to charge it.  Is the battery user replaceable?  If not, how much will it cost to replace it? 
 
And any prudent blind person who doesn’t use a dog should be a skilled cane user anyway so that in case of trouble with the device, he/she can switch to a low tech device that works very well while the problem is corrected.  I have an emergency cane.  Having two canes costs me perhaps sixty dollars.  People aren’t going to have two of these devices when they cost 250 dollars. 
 
As I said, I don’t object to a device that informs me about obstacles above the lefvel of the cane.  I do object to the attitude that the cane should be replaced and likely by something inferior. 
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:16 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount
 
This post is my opinion, and is not affiliated with Strap or any other entity. All opinions in this message are my own.
 
Gene,
 
People said the same thing that you're saying about horses, too. And yet, we are now driving cars.
 
Guide dogs already take away much of what the cane gives you, and dog users are quite content being dog users. With a dog, blind people go around obstacles, they don't interact with every obstacle in their path.
 
Does it count when a blind person disparages the cane and says that we need more innovation in the space to get rid of the bloody thing? Because I am one of those blind people.
 
Does it count that I want to be able to travel unencumbered with both hands free?
 
Does it count if I want to not worry about whether someone trips over my cane and breaks it? Or if the tip flies off the cane?
 
Does it matter if I don't want to worry about what happens to my upper body because that trusty cane doesn't protect it while I'm walking? Because believe me, running into scaffolding bloody hurts, and yes, I've done it.
 
Does it matter if I want to be able to actually walk in a straight line? Because, short of tapping against a wall or grass line, there isn't a way to do it with a cane.
 
Does it matter if I wish to traverse through a crowded downtown area, or any crowded environment without running into many things?
 
Does it matter if I want to be inconspicuous, and not be asked whether I, a poor blind man, require assistance to wipe my ass? Because that is essentially what happens to every single blind person I know. I am not approached about my work. I am not approached about my appearance. I am not approached about my shoes. I am not approached about anything except my blindness and someone wanting to help me because they think I am making a mistake trying to cross a street.
 
So, sorry, but we definitely need a cane replacement, in my view, and any blind person disagreeing is, frankly, a complete and utter fool. And, I would ask blind people to support the effort instead of shitting on it, because developers should be encouraged to innovate, not be discouraged by stupid posts like the one I've just read.
 
Does that mean that Strap will, indeed, replace the cane? I don't know, probably not. But it's a much better attempt than we've seen so far, with others trying to reinvent the cane by making it heavier and adding sensors to it.
 
So, I would say, support the effort. Stand by and watch, if you wish. But don't get in the way of what is possibly the most progress we've seen in a long time. We have cars that zoom on the roads autonomously. We have planes that can take off and land themselves. We have trains that can do the same, with minimal to no human interaction. We have probes going into deep space sending back pictures of Mars. And yet, the best the blind people can do, is fight to use their canes, and say they're proud of their canes.
 
I say again, if you don't or can't help, and you don't support the effort, with the nicest and most respectful intent possible, get the hell out of the way, sit down and shut up, and don't stop innovation and progress.
 
And with that, I will no longer engage in this thread, because I can see that more stupidity will be posted, and more people will come out proud to be carrying a stick.
 
On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 11:57 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
Isn’t it interesting how the cane is not respected and disparaged because blind people use it?  I don’t see people trying to eliminate cars because unassisted movement is a right and is superior.
 
I’d like to see how expensive this device is.  I’d like to see how long it runs on a charge.  I’d like to see if it gives me information about my nearby environment such as where a doorway is to a building or where there is grass to my left and where that grass is interrupted by a driveway, which may be necessary for me to find with my cane to know where I turn to move toward a building and the counting of driveways and walkways may be necessary for me to know when I’m turning at the right place. 
 
Device after device has been made and they have none of them been widely adopted.  Maybe there is a reason.
 
Blindness is considered a tragedy and the ways blind people do things are often disparaged, guilt by association.  Some ways blind people do things are neutral, some inferior, some superior.  Will it be replaced at some point by something superior?  Who knows.  but its persistence and wide use should give those who chaff at the bit to eliminate it pause.
 
As G.K. Chesterton said:
“Don't ever take a fence down until you know the reason it was put up.”
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 1:39 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount
 

Hello everyone,

 

Three years in the making, STRAP is an innovative, wearable device that fits over the chest and is designed to detect any type of obstacle. STRAP’s vast array of sensors work by sending real-time information that detects obstacles at your head, chest, and below your waist - including bumps, holes, and steps, then notifying you with haptic language vibrations. Designed for all ages and shipped globally later this year.

 

At STRAP Technologies we believe autonomy and independence are human rights; not luxuries. Our goal is to be the first replacement of the white cane, giving the visually impaired a long overdue hands free experience.

 

Use code BlindTech strap.tech, for 50% off the current total price of a STRAP device. Preorder today at this discounted price of $250 and pay only $50 at this time to reserve your STRAP. Once STRAP is shipped to you, you will be billed the remaining $200. This offer is just available with this Blind Tech Guys Code.

 

The Blind Tech Guys are pleased to offer you the above exclusive code and we are delighted to share this with our ever-growing community, so if you are keen to try this product, we encourage you to pre-order it and keep an eye out for a demo of the product to hit your ears sometime soon.

 

Warm regards,

 

Marco Curralejo

 

 
 
--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
 
Thank you, and have a great day!


Marco Curralejo
 

I’m sorry, but I completely disagree.

 

A cane will only cover you from your belly button down and you’d better hope that you are swinging the right way, otherwise it doesn’t even do that.

 

If we have no innovation, this means that we are happy to just continue as we have done with an aid which has been around for over 100 years.

 

Imagine if we took the same approach with all other innovations in society, no phones, no new treatments, no advancements in any technology, no cars, no eftpos or other similar machines. For the sake of your argument, let’s remove anything that has been innovative since the cane has been a part of our lives and go back to the way it all was before that, because having some forward thinking and innovation doesn’t matter to you.

 

As I said before, do I think that this will replace the cane? No. What I’m saying is that we need to move forward from what we currently have and not just thumb our noses at a company that is trying to move things forward in a different way.

 

Finally, I go through at least 3 or 4 canes per year, so $250 is quite reasonable for my opinion. Should those who pay over $5000 for a braille display or other products not do so because of cost? Your argument on cost is ridiculous, in my opinion. Perhaps your one of these individuals that goes through a cane every five years. Who knows.

 

Marco

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 5:46 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

And I just thought of another reason that this device is a bad idea.  It is safer to be seen and known to be a blind person.  Perhaps you will get assistance more easily when you want it such as when crossing a street with turning arrows and a lot of high speed traffic.  [Perhaps you will have an easier time getting directions.  When I walk into a store, if service people see the cane, they will offer help.  How will they know I am blind as easily and as quickly if it isn’t made clear by a cane or a dog?  If you don’t have a cane, people won’t know you are blind.  This strikes me as an attempt to hide a person’s blindness.  I don’t want to hide it.  I am what I am and it shouldn’t be hidden.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Gene

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:39 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

The car and horse analogy doesn’t apply.  The advantages are obvious of a car.  What advantage does the cane replacement company offer?  Only one, that you can travel hands free.  I don’t consider that worht spending 250 dollars for. 

 

You yourself say that a dog gives you less information about your environment.  People may be satisfied with that and that’s their choice but I really doubt that you are going to find many competent cane users who will substitute a 250 dollar device for a thirty-five dollar device when the 35 dollar device gives them more information.  and people who use a dog may have reasons they are willing to accept less information.  There are reasons people prefer dogs.  But this is not a discussion about replacing dogs with this device.  The device is offered as a replacement for the cane.  I doubt many competent cane users will pay 250 dollars for a device that probably gives them less information. 

 

I have no trouble carrying what I want to carry with one hand using a cane.  I use larger bags.  Others may prefer a back pack.  

 

As far as things like the cane breaking or a tip falling off, I’ve been traveling with canes for about fifty years and such things have almost never happened.  And you have no basis to assume that this device will be as reliable.  What if you forget to charge it.  Is the battery user replaceable?  If not, how much will it cost to replace it? 

 

And any prudent blind person who doesn’t use a dog should be a skilled cane user anyway so that in case of trouble with the device, he/she can switch to a low tech device that works very well while the problem is corrected.  I have an emergency cane.  Having two canes costs me perhaps sixty dollars.  People aren’t going to have two of these devices when they cost 250 dollars. 

 

As I said, I don’t object to a device that informs me about obstacles above the lefvel of the cane.  I do object to the attitude that the cane should be replaced and likely by something inferior. 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:16 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

This post is my opinion, and is not affiliated with Strap or any other entity. All opinions in this message are my own.

 

Gene,

 

People said the same thing that you're saying about horses, too. And yet, we are now driving cars.

 

Guide dogs already take away much of what the cane gives you, and dog users are quite content being dog users. With a dog, blind people go around obstacles, they don't interact with every obstacle in their path.

 

Does it count when a blind person disparages the cane and says that we need more innovation in the space to get rid of the bloody thing? Because I am one of those blind people.

 

Does it count that I want to be able to travel unencumbered with both hands free?

 

Does it count if I want to not worry about whether someone trips over my cane and breaks it? Or if the tip flies off the cane?

 

Does it matter if I don't want to worry about what happens to my upper body because that trusty cane doesn't protect it while I'm walking? Because believe me, running into scaffolding bloody hurts, and yes, I've done it.

 

Does it matter if I want to be able to actually walk in a straight line? Because, short of tapping against a wall or grass line, there isn't a way to do it with a cane.

 

Does it matter if I wish to traverse through a crowded downtown area, or any crowded environment without running into many things?

 

Does it matter if I want to be inconspicuous, and not be asked whether I, a poor blind man, require assistance to wipe my ass? Because that is essentially what happens to every single blind person I know. I am not approached about my work. I am not approached about my appearance. I am not approached about my shoes. I am not approached about anything except my blindness and someone wanting to help me because they think I am making a mistake trying to cross a street.

 

So, sorry, but we definitely need a cane replacement, in my view, and any blind person disagreeing is, frankly, a complete and utter fool. And, I would ask blind people to support the effort instead of shitting on it, because developers should be encouraged to innovate, not be discouraged by stupid posts like the one I've just read.

 

Does that mean that Strap will, indeed, replace the cane? I don't know, probably not. But it's a much better attempt than we've seen so far, with others trying to reinvent the cane by making it heavier and adding sensors to it.

 

So, I would say, support the effort. Stand by and watch, if you wish. But don't get in the way of what is possibly the most progress we've seen in a long time. We have cars that zoom on the roads autonomously. We have planes that can take off and land themselves. We have trains that can do the same, with minimal to no human interaction. We have probes going into deep space sending back pictures of Mars. And yet, the best the blind people can do, is fight to use their canes, and say they're proud of their canes.

 

I say again, if you don't or can't help, and you don't support the effort, with the nicest and most respectful intent possible, get the hell out of the way, sit down and shut up, and don't stop innovation and progress.

 

And with that, I will no longer engage in this thread, because I can see that more stupidity will be posted, and more people will come out proud to be carrying a stick.

 

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 11:57 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

Isn’t it interesting how the cane is not respected and disparaged because blind people use it?  I don’t see people trying to eliminate cars because unassisted movement is a right and is superior.

 

I’d like to see how expensive this device is.  I’d like to see how long it runs on a charge.  I’d like to see if it gives me information about my nearby environment such as where a doorway is to a building or where there is grass to my left and where that grass is interrupted by a driveway, which may be necessary for me to find with my cane to know where I turn to move toward a building and the counting of driveways and walkways may be necessary for me to know when I’m turning at the right place. 

 

Device after device has been made and they have none of them been widely adopted.  Maybe there is a reason.

 

Blindness is considered a tragedy and the ways blind people do things are often disparaged, guilt by association.  Some ways blind people do things are neutral, some inferior, some superior.  Will it be replaced at some point by something superior?  Who knows.  but its persistence and wide use should give those who chaff at the bit to eliminate it pause.

 

As G.K. Chesterton said:

“Don't ever take a fence down until you know the reason it was put up.”

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 1:39 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

Hello everyone,

 

Three years in the making, STRAP is an innovative, wearable device that fits over the chest and is designed to detect any type of obstacle. STRAP’s vast array of sensors work by sending real-time information that detects obstacles at your head, chest, and below your waist - including bumps, holes, and steps, then notifying you with haptic language vibrations. Designed for all ages and shipped globally later this year.

 

At STRAP Technologies we believe autonomy and independence are human rights; not luxuries. Our goal is to be the first replacement of the white cane, giving the visually impaired a long overdue hands free experience.

 

Use code BlindTech strap.tech, for 50% off the current total price of a STRAP device. Preorder today at this discounted price of $250 and pay only $50 at this time to reserve your STRAP. Once STRAP is shipped to you, you will be billed the remaining $200. This offer is just available with this Blind Tech Guys Code.

 

The Blind Tech Guys are pleased to offer you the above exclusive code and we are delighted to share this with our ever-growing community, so if you are keen to try this product, we encourage you to pre-order it and keep an eye out for a demo of the product to hit your ears sometime soon.

 

Warm regards,

 

Marco Curralejo

 

 

 

--

Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.


Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

 

Thank you, and have a great day!


Gene
 

A competent cane user knows how to swing a cane.  That is one of the first things he/she is taught and a good instructor emphasizes correct technique.  It becomes pretty much automatic, varied at times if necessary. 
 
There have been devices for decades that alert blind people to obstacles above the level a cane covers.  I haven’t looked into them so I don’t know if this device does any better.  While I would like such coverage, I have had so little problem with such higher obstacles that I haven’t pursued the option.  But I have no objedction to such a device.  I objectt to trying to replace the cane and to trying to make you not look blind.  Also, I didn’t mention that automobile drivers may be more careful if they see a cane or a dog.  I would feel safer crossing a street identified as a blind person.
 
Also, I might be safer.  Mhy brother tells the story about one evening when my brothers’ family and I were out to dinner.  Some gang members looked as though they might come over to rob us.  When they saw my cane, the head of the group signaled not to do so.  So I may be safer from crime if people know I’m blind. 
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:55 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount
 

I’m sorry, but I completely disagree.

 

A cane will only cover you from your belly button down and you’d better hope that you are swinging the right way, otherwise it doesn’t even do that.

 

If we have no innovation, this means that we are happy to just continue as we have done with an aid which has been around for over 100 years.

 

Imagine if we took the same approach with all other innovations in society, no phones, no new treatments, no advancements in any technology, no cars, no eftpos or other similar machines. For the sake of your argument, let’s remove anything that has been innovative since the cane has been a part of our lives and go back to the way it all was before that, because having some forward thinking and innovation doesn’t matter to you.

 

As I said before, do I think that this will replace the cane? No. What I’m saying is that we need to move forward from what we currently have and not just thumb our noses at a company that is trying to move things forward in a different way.

 

Finally, I go through at least 3 or 4 canes per year, so $250 is quite reasonable for my opinion. Should those who pay over $5000 for a braille display or other products not do so because of cost? Your argument on cost is ridiculous, in my opinion. Perhaps your one of these individuals that goes through a cane every five years. Who knows.

 

Marco

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 5:46 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

And I just thought of another reason that this device is a bad idea.  It is safer to be seen and known to be a blind person.  Perhaps you will get assistance more easily when you want it such as when crossing a street with turning arrows and a lot of high speed traffic.  [Perhaps you will have an easier time getting directions.  When I walk into a store, if service people see the cane, they will offer help.  How will they know I am blind as easily and as quickly if it isn’t made clear by a cane or a dog?  If you don’t have a cane, people won’t know you are blind.  This strikes me as an attempt to hide a person’s blindness.  I don’t want to hide it.  I am what I am and it shouldn’t be hidden.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Gene

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:39 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

The car and horse analogy doesn’t apply.  The advantages are obvious of a car.  What advantage does the cane replacement company offer?  Only one, that you can travel hands free.  I don’t consider that worht spending 250 dollars for. 

 

You yourself say that a dog gives you less information about your environment.  People may be satisfied with that and that’s their choice but I really doubt that you are going to find many competent cane users who will substitute a 250 dollar device for a thirty-five dollar device when the 35 dollar device gives them more information.  and people who use a dog may have reasons they are willing to accept less information.  There are reasons people prefer dogs.  But this is not a discussion about replacing dogs with this device.  The device is offered as a replacement for the cane.  I doubt many competent cane users will pay 250 dollars for a device that probably gives them less information. 

 

I have no trouble carrying what I want to carry with one hand using a cane.  I use larger bags.  Others may prefer a back pack.  

 

As far as things like the cane breaking or a tip falling off, I’ve been traveling with canes for about fifty years and such things have almost never happened.  And you have no basis to assume that this device will be as reliable.  What if you forget to charge it.  Is the battery user replaceable?  If not, how much will it cost to replace it? 

 

And any prudent blind person who doesn’t use a dog should be a skilled cane user anyway so that in case of trouble with the device, he/she can switch to a low tech device that works very well while the problem is corrected.  I have an emergency cane.  Having two canes costs me perhaps sixty dollars.  People aren’t going to have two of these devices when they cost 250 dollars. 

 

As I said, I don’t object to a device that informs me about obstacles above the lefvel of the cane.  I do object to the attitude that the cane should be replaced and likely by something inferior. 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Nimer Jaber

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:16 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

This post is my opinion, and is not affiliated with Strap or any other entity. All opinions in this message are my own.

 

Gene,

 

People said the same thing that you're saying about horses, too. And yet, we are now driving cars.

 

Guide dogs already take away much of what the cane gives you, and dog users are quite content being dog users. With a dog, blind people go around obstacles, they don't interact with every obstacle in their path.

 

Does it count when a blind person disparages the cane and says that we need more innovation in the space to get rid of the bloody thing? Because I am one of those blind people.

 

Does it count that I want to be able to travel unencumbered with both hands free?

 

Does it count if I want to not worry about whether someone trips over my cane and breaks it? Or if the tip flies off the cane?

 

Does it matter if I don't want to worry about what happens to my upper body because that trusty cane doesn't protect it while I'm walking? Because believe me, running into scaffolding bloody hurts, and yes, I've done it.

 

Does it matter if I want to be able to actually walk in a straight line? Because, short of tapping against a wall or grass line, there isn't a way to do it with a cane.

 

Does it matter if I wish to traverse through a crowded downtown area, or any crowded environment without running into many things?

 

Does it matter if I want to be inconspicuous, and not be asked whether I, a poor blind man, require assistance to wipe my ass? Because that is essentially what happens to every single blind person I know. I am not approached about my work. I am not approached about my appearance. I am not approached about my shoes. I am not approached about anything except my blindness and someone wanting to help me because they think I am making a mistake trying to cross a street.

 

So, sorry, but we definitely need a cane replacement, in my view, and any blind person disagreeing is, frankly, a complete and utter fool. And, I would ask blind people to support the effort instead of shitting on it, because developers should be encouraged to innovate, not be discouraged by stupid posts like the one I've just read.

 

Does that mean that Strap will, indeed, replace the cane? I don't know, probably not. But it's a much better attempt than we've seen so far, with others trying to reinvent the cane by making it heavier and adding sensors to it.

 

So, I would say, support the effort. Stand by and watch, if you wish. But don't get in the way of what is possibly the most progress we've seen in a long time. We have cars that zoom on the roads autonomously. We have planes that can take off and land themselves. We have trains that can do the same, with minimal to no human interaction. We have probes going into deep space sending back pictures of Mars. And yet, the best the blind people can do, is fight to use their canes, and say they're proud of their canes.

 

I say again, if you don't or can't help, and you don't support the effort, with the nicest and most respectful intent possible, get the hell out of the way, sit down and shut up, and don't stop innovation and progress.

 

And with that, I will no longer engage in this thread, because I can see that more stupidity will be posted, and more people will come out proud to be carrying a stick.

 

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 11:57 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

Isn’t it interesting how the cane is not respected and disparaged because blind people use it?  I don’t see people trying to eliminate cars because unassisted movement is a right and is superior.

 

I’d like to see how expensive this device is.  I’d like to see how long it runs on a charge.  I’d like to see if it gives me information about my nearby environment such as where a doorway is to a building or where there is grass to my left and where that grass is interrupted by a driveway, which may be necessary for me to find with my cane to know where I turn to move toward a building and the counting of driveways and walkways may be necessary for me to know when I’m turning at the right place. 

 

Device after device has been made and they have none of them been widely adopted.  Maybe there is a reason.

 

Blindness is considered a tragedy and the ways blind people do things are often disparaged, guilt by association.  Some ways blind people do things are neutral, some inferior, some superior.  Will it be replaced at some point by something superior?  Who knows.  but its persistence and wide use should give those who chaff at the bit to eliminate it pause.

 

As G.K. Chesterton said:

“Don't ever take a fence down until you know the reason it was put up.”

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 1:39 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

Hello everyone,

 

Three years in the making, STRAP is an innovative, wearable device that fits over the chest and is designed to detect any type of obstacle. STRAP’s vast array of sensors work by sending real-time information that detects obstacles at your head, chest, and below your waist - including bumps, holes, and steps, then notifying you with haptic language vibrations. Designed for all ages and shipped globally later this year.

 

At STRAP Technologies we believe autonomy and independence are human rights; not luxuries. Our goal is to be the first replacement of the white cane, giving the visually impaired a long overdue hands free experience.

 

Use code BlindTech strap.tech, for 50% off the current total price of a STRAP device. Preorder today at this discounted price of $250 and pay only $50 at this time to reserve your STRAP. Once STRAP is shipped to you, you will be billed the remaining $200. This offer is just available with this Blind Tech Guys Code.

 

The Blind Tech Guys are pleased to offer you the above exclusive code and we are delighted to share this with our ever-growing community, so if you are keen to try this product, we encourage you to pre-order it and keep an eye out for a demo of the product to hit your ears sometime soon.

 

Warm regards,

 

Marco Curralejo

 

 

 

--

Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.


Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

 

Thank you, and have a great day!


Marco Curralejo
 

The reason why you thankfully didn’t get robbed is because your lucky, not because you are blind.

 

Honestly, this is getting ridiculous and you keep putting up points which are just not really that plausible, in my opinion.

 

I’m not wasting my time on this thread any longer.

 

Thanks,

 

Marco

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 6:06 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

A competent cane user knows how to swing a cane.  That is one of the first things he/she is taught and a good instructor emphasizes correct technique.  It becomes pretty much automatic, varied at times if necessary. 

 

There have been devices for decades that alert blind people to obstacles above the level a cane covers.  I haven’t looked into them so I don’t know if this device does any better.  While I would like such coverage, I have had so little problem with such higher obstacles that I haven’t pursued the option.  But I have no objedction to such a device.  I objectt to trying to replace the cane and to trying to make you not look blind.  Also, I didn’t mention that automobile drivers may be more careful if they see a cane or a dog.  I would feel safer crossing a street identified as a blind person.

 

Also, I might be safer.  Mhy brother tells the story about one evening when my brothers’ family and I were out to dinner.  Some gang members looked as though they might come over to rob us.  When they saw my cane, the head of the group signaled not to do so.  So I may be safer from crime if people know I’m blind. 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:55 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

I’m sorry, but I completely disagree.

 

A cane will only cover you from your belly button down and you’d better hope that you are swinging the right way, otherwise it doesn’t even do that.

 

If we have no innovation, this means that we are happy to just continue as we have done with an aid which has been around for over 100 years.

 

Imagine if we took the same approach with all other innovations in society, no phones, no new treatments, no advancements in any technology, no cars, no eftpos or other similar machines. For the sake of your argument, let’s remove anything that has been innovative since the cane has been a part of our lives and go back to the way it all was before that, because having some forward thinking and innovation doesn’t matter to you.

 

As I said before, do I think that this will replace the cane? No. What I’m saying is that we need to move forward from what we currently have and not just thumb our noses at a company that is trying to move things forward in a different way.

 

Finally, I go through at least 3 or 4 canes per year, so $250 is quite reasonable for my opinion. Should those who pay over $5000 for a braille display or other products not do so because of cost? Your argument on cost is ridiculous, in my opinion. Perhaps your one of these individuals that goes through a cane every five years. Who knows.

 

Marco

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 5:46 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

And I just thought of another reason that this device is a bad idea.  It is safer to be seen and known to be a blind person.  Perhaps you will get assistance more easily when you want it such as when crossing a street with turning arrows and a lot of high speed traffic.  [Perhaps you will have an easier time getting directions.  When I walk into a store, if service people see the cane, they will offer help.  How will they know I am blind as easily and as quickly if it isn’t made clear by a cane or a dog?  If you don’t have a cane, people won’t know you are blind.  This strikes me as an attempt to hide a person’s blindness.  I don’t want to hide it.  I am what I am and it shouldn’t be hidden.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Gene

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:39 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

The car and horse analogy doesn’t apply.  The advantages are obvious of a car.  What advantage does the cane replacement company offer?  Only one, that you can travel hands free.  I don’t consider that worht spending 250 dollars for. 

 

You yourself say that a dog gives you less information about your environment.  People may be satisfied with that and that’s their choice but I really doubt that you are going to find many competent cane users who will substitute a 250 dollar device for a thirty-five dollar device when the 35 dollar device gives them more information.  and people who use a dog may have reasons they are willing to accept less information.  There are reasons people prefer dogs.  But this is not a discussion about replacing dogs with this device.  The device is offered as a replacement for the cane.  I doubt many competent cane users will pay 250 dollars for a device that probably gives them less information. 

 

I have no trouble carrying what I want to carry with one hand using a cane.  I use larger bags.  Others may prefer a back pack.  

 

As far as things like the cane breaking or a tip falling off, I’ve been traveling with canes for about fifty years and such things have almost never happened.  And you have no basis to assume that this device will be as reliable.  What if you forget to charge it.  Is the battery user replaceable?  If not, how much will it cost to replace it? 

 

And any prudent blind person who doesn’t use a dog should be a skilled cane user anyway so that in case of trouble with the device, he/she can switch to a low tech device that works very well while the problem is corrected.  I have an emergency cane.  Having two canes costs me perhaps sixty dollars.  People aren’t going to have two of these devices when they cost 250 dollars. 

 

As I said, I don’t object to a device that informs me about obstacles above the lefvel of the cane.  I do object to the attitude that the cane should be replaced and likely by something inferior. 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:16 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

This post is my opinion, and is not affiliated with Strap or any other entity. All opinions in this message are my own.

 

Gene,

 

People said the same thing that you're saying about horses, too. And yet, we are now driving cars.

 

Guide dogs already take away much of what the cane gives you, and dog users are quite content being dog users. With a dog, blind people go around obstacles, they don't interact with every obstacle in their path.

 

Does it count when a blind person disparages the cane and says that we need more innovation in the space to get rid of the bloody thing? Because I am one of those blind people.

 

Does it count that I want to be able to travel unencumbered with both hands free?

 

Does it count if I want to not worry about whether someone trips over my cane and breaks it? Or if the tip flies off the cane?

 

Does it matter if I don't want to worry about what happens to my upper body because that trusty cane doesn't protect it while I'm walking? Because believe me, running into scaffolding bloody hurts, and yes, I've done it.

 

Does it matter if I want to be able to actually walk in a straight line? Because, short of tapping against a wall or grass line, there isn't a way to do it with a cane.

 

Does it matter if I wish to traverse through a crowded downtown area, or any crowded environment without running into many things?

 

Does it matter if I want to be inconspicuous, and not be asked whether I, a poor blind man, require assistance to wipe my ass? Because that is essentially what happens to every single blind person I know. I am not approached about my work. I am not approached about my appearance. I am not approached about my shoes. I am not approached about anything except my blindness and someone wanting to help me because they think I am making a mistake trying to cross a street.

 

So, sorry, but we definitely need a cane replacement, in my view, and any blind person disagreeing is, frankly, a complete and utter fool. And, I would ask blind people to support the effort instead of shitting on it, because developers should be encouraged to innovate, not be discouraged by stupid posts like the one I've just read.

 

Does that mean that Strap will, indeed, replace the cane? I don't know, probably not. But it's a much better attempt than we've seen so far, with others trying to reinvent the cane by making it heavier and adding sensors to it.

 

So, I would say, support the effort. Stand by and watch, if you wish. But don't get in the way of what is possibly the most progress we've seen in a long time. We have cars that zoom on the roads autonomously. We have planes that can take off and land themselves. We have trains that can do the same, with minimal to no human interaction. We have probes going into deep space sending back pictures of Mars. And yet, the best the blind people can do, is fight to use their canes, and say they're proud of their canes.

 

I say again, if you don't or can't help, and you don't support the effort, with the nicest and most respectful intent possible, get the hell out of the way, sit down and shut up, and don't stop innovation and progress.

 

And with that, I will no longer engage in this thread, because I can see that more stupidity will be posted, and more people will come out proud to be carrying a stick.

 

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 11:57 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

Isn’t it interesting how the cane is not respected and disparaged because blind people use it?  I don’t see people trying to eliminate cars because unassisted movement is a right and is superior.

 

I’d like to see how expensive this device is.  I’d like to see how long it runs on a charge.  I’d like to see if it gives me information about my nearby environment such as where a doorway is to a building or where there is grass to my left and where that grass is interrupted by a driveway, which may be necessary for me to find with my cane to know where I turn to move toward a building and the counting of driveways and walkways may be necessary for me to know when I’m turning at the right place. 

 

Device after device has been made and they have none of them been widely adopted.  Maybe there is a reason.

 

Blindness is considered a tragedy and the ways blind people do things are often disparaged, guilt by association.  Some ways blind people do things are neutral, some inferior, some superior.  Will it be replaced at some point by something superior?  Who knows.  but its persistence and wide use should give those who chaff at the bit to eliminate it pause.

 

As G.K. Chesterton said:

“Don't ever take a fence down until you know the reason it was put up.”

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 1:39 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

Hello everyone,

 

Three years in the making, STRAP is an innovative, wearable device that fits over the chest and is designed to detect any type of obstacle. STRAP’s vast array of sensors work by sending real-time information that detects obstacles at your head, chest, and below your waist - including bumps, holes, and steps, then notifying you with haptic language vibrations. Designed for all ages and shipped globally later this year.

 

At STRAP Technologies we believe autonomy and independence are human rights; not luxuries. Our goal is to be the first replacement of the white cane, giving the visually impaired a long overdue hands free experience.

 

Use code BlindTech strap.tech, for 50% off the current total price of a STRAP device. Preorder today at this discounted price of $250 and pay only $50 at this time to reserve your STRAP. Once STRAP is shipped to you, you will be billed the remaining $200. This offer is just available with this Blind Tech Guys Code.

 

The Blind Tech Guys are pleased to offer you the above exclusive code and we are delighted to share this with our ever-growing community, so if you are keen to try this product, we encourage you to pre-order it and keep an eye out for a demo of the product to hit your ears sometime soon.

 

Warm regards,

 

Marco Curralejo

 

 

 

--

Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.


Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

 

Thank you, and have a great day!


Gene
 

I just went to the web site. 
I had thought the product cost 250 dollars.  Guess what?  It costs 750 dollars.  750 dollars to replace a 35 dollar cane? 
 
Here is what the web site says:
Usually, STRAP sells for $750. But for those who order today, it is $500.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:39 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount
 
The car and horse analogy doesn’t apply.  The advantages are obvious of a car.  What advantage does the cane replacement company offer?  Only one, that you can travel hands free.  I don’t consider that worht spending 250 dollars for. 
 
You yourself say that a dog gives you less information about your environment.  People may be satisfied with that and that’s their choice but I really doubt that you are going to find many competent cane users who will substitute a 250 dollar device for a thirty-five dollar device when the 35 dollar device gives them more information.  and people who use a dog may have reasons they are willing to accept less information.  There are reasons people prefer dogs.  But this is not a discussion about replacing dogs with this device.  The device is offered as a replacement for the cane.  I doubt many competent cane users will pay 250 dollars for a device that probably gives them less information. 
 
I have no trouble carrying what I want to carry with one hand using a cane.  I use larger bags.  Others may prefer a back pack.  
 
As far as things like the cane breaking or a tip falling off, I’ve been traveling with canes for about fifty years and such things have almost never happened.  And you have no basis to assume that this device will be as reliable.  What if you forget to charge it.  Is the battery user replaceable?  If not, how much will it cost to replace it? 
 
And any prudent blind person who doesn’t use a dog should be a skilled cane user anyway so that in case of trouble with the device, he/she can switch to a low tech device that works very well while the problem is corrected.  I have an emergency cane.  Having two canes costs me perhaps sixty dollars.  People aren’t going to have two of these devices when they cost 250 dollars. 
 
As I said, I don’t object to a device that informs me about obstacles above the lefvel of the cane.  I do object to the attitude that the cane should be replaced and likely by something inferior. 
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:16 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount
 
This post is my opinion, and is not affiliated with Strap or any other entity. All opinions in this message are my own.
 
Gene,
 
People said the same thing that you're saying about horses, too. And yet, we are now driving cars.
 
Guide dogs already take away much of what the cane gives you, and dog users are quite content being dog users. With a dog, blind people go around obstacles, they don't interact with every obstacle in their path.
 
Does it count when a blind person disparages the cane and says that we need more innovation in the space to get rid of the bloody thing? Because I am one of those blind people.
 
Does it count that I want to be able to travel unencumbered with both hands free?
 
Does it count if I want to not worry about whether someone trips over my cane and breaks it? Or if the tip flies off the cane?
 
Does it matter if I don't want to worry about what happens to my upper body because that trusty cane doesn't protect it while I'm walking? Because believe me, running into scaffolding bloody hurts, and yes, I've done it.
 
Does it matter if I want to be able to actually walk in a straight line? Because, short of tapping against a wall or grass line, there isn't a way to do it with a cane.
 
Does it matter if I wish to traverse through a crowded downtown area, or any crowded environment without running into many things?
 
Does it matter if I want to be inconspicuous, and not be asked whether I, a poor blind man, require assistance to wipe my ass? Because that is essentially what happens to every single blind person I know. I am not approached about my work. I am not approached about my appearance. I am not approached about my shoes. I am not approached about anything except my blindness and someone wanting to help me because they think I am making a mistake trying to cross a street.
 
So, sorry, but we definitely need a cane replacement, in my view, and any blind person disagreeing is, frankly, a complete and utter fool. And, I would ask blind people to support the effort instead of shitting on it, because developers should be encouraged to innovate, not be discouraged by stupid posts like the one I've just read.
 
Does that mean that Strap will, indeed, replace the cane? I don't know, probably not. But it's a much better attempt than we've seen so far, with others trying to reinvent the cane by making it heavier and adding sensors to it.
 
So, I would say, support the effort. Stand by and watch, if you wish. But don't get in the way of what is possibly the most progress we've seen in a long time. We have cars that zoom on the roads autonomously. We have planes that can take off and land themselves. We have trains that can do the same, with minimal to no human interaction. We have probes going into deep space sending back pictures of Mars. And yet, the best the blind people can do, is fight to use their canes, and say they're proud of their canes.
 
I say again, if you don't or can't help, and you don't support the effort, with the nicest and most respectful intent possible, get the hell out of the way, sit down and shut up, and don't stop innovation and progress.
 
And with that, I will no longer engage in this thread, because I can see that more stupidity will be posted, and more people will come out proud to be carrying a stick.
 
On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 11:57 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
Isn’t it interesting how the cane is not respected and disparaged because blind people use it?  I don’t see people trying to eliminate cars because unassisted movement is a right and is superior.
 
I’d like to see how expensive this device is.  I’d like to see how long it runs on a charge.  I’d like to see if it gives me information about my nearby environment such as where a doorway is to a building or where there is grass to my left and where that grass is interrupted by a driveway, which may be necessary for me to find with my cane to know where I turn to move toward a building and the counting of driveways and walkways may be necessary for me to know when I’m turning at the right place. 
 
Device after device has been made and they have none of them been widely adopted.  Maybe there is a reason.
 
Blindness is considered a tragedy and the ways blind people do things are often disparaged, guilt by association.  Some ways blind people do things are neutral, some inferior, some superior.  Will it be replaced at some point by something superior?  Who knows.  but its persistence and wide use should give those who chaff at the bit to eliminate it pause.
 
As G.K. Chesterton said:
“Don't ever take a fence down until you know the reason it was put up.”
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 1:39 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount
 

Hello everyone,

 

Three years in the making, STRAP is an innovative, wearable device that fits over the chest and is designed to detect any type of obstacle. STRAP’s vast array of sensors work by sending real-time information that detects obstacles at your head, chest, and below your waist - including bumps, holes, and steps, then notifying you with haptic language vibrations. Designed for all ages and shipped globally later this year.

 

At STRAP Technologies we believe autonomy and independence are human rights; not luxuries. Our goal is to be the first replacement of the white cane, giving the visually impaired a long overdue hands free experience.

 

Use code BlindTech strap.tech, for 50% off the current total price of a STRAP device. Preorder today at this discounted price of $250 and pay only $50 at this time to reserve your STRAP. Once STRAP is shipped to you, you will be billed the remaining $200. This offer is just available with this Blind Tech Guys Code.

 

The Blind Tech Guys are pleased to offer you the above exclusive code and we are delighted to share this with our ever-growing community, so if you are keen to try this product, we encourage you to pre-order it and keep an eye out for a demo of the product to hit your ears sometime soon.

 

Warm regards,

 

Marco Curralejo

 

 
 
--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
 
Thank you, and have a great day!


chris judge
 

If this thing does even a quarter of what it claims to do, it would sell for much more than $750.

Sorry but I smell a scam here. If I’m proven wrong I’ll  capitulate. I don’t mind admitting when I’m mistaken, but my instinct tells me there’s something not right here. I can’t recall ever hearing of anyone pre-ordering a device that is basically unknown.

Chris Judge

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Marco Curralejo
Sent: May 6, 2021 5:37 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

The reason why you thankfully didn’t get robbed is because your lucky, not because you are blind.

 

Honestly, this is getting ridiculous and you keep putting up points which are just not really that plausible, in my opinion.

 

I’m not wasting my time on this thread any longer.

 

Thanks,

 

Marco

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 6:06 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

A competent cane user knows how to swing a cane.  That is one of the first things he/she is taught and a good instructor emphasizes correct technique.  It becomes pretty much automatic, varied at times if necessary. 

 

There have been devices for decades that alert blind people to obstacles above the level a cane covers.  I haven’t looked into them so I don’t know if this device does any better.  While I would like such coverage, I have had so little problem with such higher obstacles that I haven’t pursued the option.  But I have no objedction to such a device.  I objectt to trying to replace the cane and to trying to make you not look blind.  Also, I didn’t mention that automobile drivers may be more careful if they see a cane or a dog.  I would feel safer crossing a street identified as a blind person.

 

Also, I might be safer.  Mhy brother tells the story about one evening when my brothers’ family and I were out to dinner.  Some gang members looked as though they might come over to rob us.  When they saw my cane, the head of the group signaled not to do so.  So I may be safer from crime if people know I’m blind. 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:55 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

I’m sorry, but I completely disagree.

 

A cane will only cover you from your belly button down and you’d better hope that you are swinging the right way, otherwise it doesn’t even do that.

 

If we have no innovation, this means that we are happy to just continue as we have done with an aid which has been around for over 100 years.

 

Imagine if we took the same approach with all other innovations in society, no phones, no new treatments, no advancements in any technology, no cars, no eftpos or other similar machines. For the sake of your argument, let’s remove anything that has been innovative since the cane has been a part of our lives and go back to the way it all was before that, because having some forward thinking and innovation doesn’t matter to you.

 

As I said before, do I think that this will replace the cane? No. What I’m saying is that we need to move forward from what we currently have and not just thumb our noses at a company that is trying to move things forward in a different way.

 

Finally, I go through at least 3 or 4 canes per year, so $250 is quite reasonable for my opinion. Should those who pay over $5000 for a braille display or other products not do so because of cost? Your argument on cost is ridiculous, in my opinion. Perhaps your one of these individuals that goes through a cane every five years. Who knows.

 

Marco

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 5:46 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

And I just thought of another reason that this device is a bad idea.  It is safer to be seen and known to be a blind person.  Perhaps you will get assistance more easily when you want it such as when crossing a street with turning arrows and a lot of high speed traffic.  [Perhaps you will have an easier time getting directions.  When I walk into a store, if service people see the cane, they will offer help.  How will they know I am blind as easily and as quickly if it isn’t made clear by a cane or a dog?  If you don’t have a cane, people won’t know you are blind.  This strikes me as an attempt to hide a person’s blindness.  I don’t want to hide it.  I am what I am and it shouldn’t be hidden.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Gene

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:39 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

The car and horse analogy doesn’t apply.  The advantages are obvious of a car.  What advantage does the cane replacement company offer?  Only one, that you can travel hands free.  I don’t consider that worht spending 250 dollars for. 

 

You yourself say that a dog gives you less information about your environment.  People may be satisfied with that and that’s their choice but I really doubt that you are going to find many competent cane users who will substitute a 250 dollar device for a thirty-five dollar device when the 35 dollar device gives them more information.  and people who use a dog may have reasons they are willing to accept less information.  There are reasons people prefer dogs.  But this is not a discussion about replacing dogs with this device.  The device is offered as a replacement for the cane.  I doubt many competent cane users will pay 250 dollars for a device that probably gives them less information. 

 

I have no trouble carrying what I want to carry with one hand using a cane.  I use larger bags.  Others may prefer a back pack.  

 

As far as things like the cane breaking or a tip falling off, I’ve been traveling with canes for about fifty years and such things have almost never happened.  And you have no basis to assume that this device will be as reliable.  What if you forget to charge it.  Is the battery user replaceable?  If not, how much will it cost to replace it? 

 

And any prudent blind person who doesn’t use a dog should be a skilled cane user anyway so that in case of trouble with the device, he/she can switch to a low tech device that works very well while the problem is corrected.  I have an emergency cane.  Having two canes costs me perhaps sixty dollars.  People aren’t going to have two of these devices when they cost 250 dollars. 

 

As I said, I don’t object to a device that informs me about obstacles above the lefvel of the cane.  I do object to the attitude that the cane should be replaced and likely by something inferior. 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:16 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

This post is my opinion, and is not affiliated with Strap or any other entity. All opinions in this message are my own.

 

Gene,

 

People said the same thing that you're saying about horses, too. And yet, we are now driving cars.

 

Guide dogs already take away much of what the cane gives you, and dog users are quite content being dog users. With a dog, blind people go around obstacles, they don't interact with every obstacle in their path.

 

Does it count when a blind person disparages the cane and says that we need more innovation in the space to get rid of the bloody thing? Because I am one of those blind people.

 

Does it count that I want to be able to travel unencumbered with both hands free?

 

Does it count if I want to not worry about whether someone trips over my cane and breaks it? Or if the tip flies off the cane?

 

Does it matter if I don't want to worry about what happens to my upper body because that trusty cane doesn't protect it while I'm walking? Because believe me, running into scaffolding bloody hurts, and yes, I've done it.

 

Does it matter if I want to be able to actually walk in a straight line? Because, short of tapping against a wall or grass line, there isn't a way to do it with a cane.

 

Does it matter if I wish to traverse through a crowded downtown area, or any crowded environment without running into many things?

 

Does it matter if I want to be inconspicuous, and not be asked whether I, a poor blind man, require assistance to wipe my ass? Because that is essentially what happens to every single blind person I know. I am not approached about my work. I am not approached about my appearance. I am not approached about my shoes. I am not approached about anything except my blindness and someone wanting to help me because they think I am making a mistake trying to cross a street.

 

So, sorry, but we definitely need a cane replacement, in my view, and any blind person disagreeing is, frankly, a complete and utter fool. And, I would ask blind people to support the effort instead of shitting on it, because developers should be encouraged to innovate, not be discouraged by stupid posts like the one I've just read.

 

Does that mean that Strap will, indeed, replace the cane? I don't know, probably not. But it's a much better attempt than we've seen so far, with others trying to reinvent the cane by making it heavier and adding sensors to it.

 

So, I would say, support the effort. Stand by and watch, if you wish. But don't get in the way of what is possibly the most progress we've seen in a long time. We have cars that zoom on the roads autonomously. We have planes that can take off and land themselves. We have trains that can do the same, with minimal to no human interaction. We have probes going into deep space sending back pictures of Mars. And yet, the best the blind people can do, is fight to use their canes, and say they're proud of their canes.

 

I say again, if you don't or can't help, and you don't support the effort, with the nicest and most respectful intent possible, get the hell out of the way, sit down and shut up, and don't stop innovation and progress.

 

And with that, I will no longer engage in this thread, because I can see that more stupidity will be posted, and more people will come out proud to be carrying a stick.

 

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 11:57 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

Isn’t it interesting how the cane is not respected and disparaged because blind people use it?  I don’t see people trying to eliminate cars because unassisted movement is a right and is superior.

 

I’d like to see how expensive this device is.  I’d like to see how long it runs on a charge.  I’d like to see if it gives me information about my nearby environment such as where a doorway is to a building or where there is grass to my left and where that grass is interrupted by a driveway, which may be necessary for me to find with my cane to know where I turn to move toward a building and the counting of driveways and walkways may be necessary for me to know when I’m turning at the right place. 

 

Device after device has been made and they have none of them been widely adopted.  Maybe there is a reason.

 

Blindness is considered a tragedy and the ways blind people do things are often disparaged, guilt by association.  Some ways blind people do things are neutral, some inferior, some superior.  Will it be replaced at some point by something superior?  Who knows.  but its persistence and wide use should give those who chaff at the bit to eliminate it pause.

 

As G.K. Chesterton said:

“Don't ever take a fence down until you know the reason it was put up.”

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 1:39 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

Hello everyone,

 

Three years in the making, STRAP is an innovative, wearable device that fits over the chest and is designed to detect any type of obstacle. STRAP’s vast array of sensors work by sending real-time information that detects obstacles at your head, chest, and below your waist - including bumps, holes, and steps, then notifying you with haptic language vibrations. Designed for all ages and shipped globally later this year.

 

At STRAP Technologies we believe autonomy and independence are human rights; not luxuries. Our goal is to be the first replacement of the white cane, giving the visually impaired a long overdue hands free experience.

 

Use code BlindTech strap.tech, for 50% off the current total price of a STRAP device. Preorder today at this discounted price of $250 and pay only $50 at this time to reserve your STRAP. Once STRAP is shipped to you, you will be billed the remaining $200. This offer is just available with this Blind Tech Guys Code.

 

The Blind Tech Guys are pleased to offer you the above exclusive code and we are delighted to share this with our ever-growing community, so if you are keen to try this product, we encourage you to pre-order it and keep an eye out for a demo of the product to hit your ears sometime soon.

 

Warm regards,

 

Marco Curralejo

 

 

 

--

Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.


Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

 

Thank you, and have a great day!


Gene
 

My brother saw what happened.  You have no grounds to doubt the story other than to believe that my brother misunderstood what he saw or that the gang leader changed his mind for some other reason than blindness which is not credible.
 
And whether the story is the case or not, many people will leave blind people alone. 
 
And this is just one example of where it is of benefit to be clearly seen as a blind person.  From the possibility of traffic being more careful when they see the cane or the dog, to the other examples I gave, it is clearly advantageous to be seen as blind. 
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 3:37 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount
 

The reason why you thankfully didn’t get robbed is because your lucky, not because you are blind.

 

Honestly, this is getting ridiculous and you keep putting up points which are just not really that plausible, in my opinion.

 

I’m not wasting my time on this thread any longer.

 

Thanks,

 

Marco

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 6:06 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

A competent cane user knows how to swing a cane.  That is one of the first things he/she is taught and a good instructor emphasizes correct technique.  It becomes pretty much automatic, varied at times if necessary. 

 

There have been devices for decades that alert blind people to obstacles above the level a cane covers.  I haven’t looked into them so I don’t know if this device does any better.  While I would like such coverage, I have had so little problem with such higher obstacles that I haven’t pursued the option.  But I have no objedction to such a device.  I objectt to trying to replace the cane and to trying to make you not look blind.  Also, I didn’t mention that automobile drivers may be more careful if they see a cane or a dog.  I would feel safer crossing a street identified as a blind person.

 

Also, I might be safer.  Mhy brother tells the story about one evening when my brothers’ family and I were out to dinner.  Some gang members looked as though they might come over to rob us.  When they saw my cane, the head of the group signaled not to do so.  So I may be safer from crime if people know I’m blind. 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:55 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

I’m sorry, but I completely disagree.

 

A cane will only cover you from your belly button down and you’d better hope that you are swinging the right way, otherwise it doesn’t even do that.

 

If we have no innovation, this means that we are happy to just continue as we have done with an aid which has been around for over 100 years.

 

Imagine if we took the same approach with all other innovations in society, no phones, no new treatments, no advancements in any technology, no cars, no eftpos or other similar machines. For the sake of your argument, let’s remove anything that has been innovative since the cane has been a part of our lives and go back to the way it all was before that, because having some forward thinking and innovation doesn’t matter to you.

 

As I said before, do I think that this will replace the cane? No. What I’m saying is that we need to move forward from what we currently have and not just thumb our noses at a company that is trying to move things forward in a different way.

 

Finally, I go through at least 3 or 4 canes per year, so $250 is quite reasonable for my opinion. Should those who pay over $5000 for a braille display or other products not do so because of cost? Your argument on cost is ridiculous, in my opinion. Perhaps your one of these individuals that goes through a cane every five years. Who knows.

 

Marco

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 5:46 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

And I just thought of another reason that this device is a bad idea.  It is safer to be seen and known to be a blind person.  Perhaps you will get assistance more easily when you want it such as when crossing a street with turning arrows and a lot of high speed traffic.  [Perhaps you will have an easier time getting directions.  When I walk into a store, if service people see the cane, they will offer help.  How will they know I am blind as easily and as quickly if it isn’t made clear by a cane or a dog?  If you don’t have a cane, people won’t know you are blind.  This strikes me as an attempt to hide a person’s blindness.  I don’t want to hide it.  I am what I am and it shouldn’t be hidden.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Gene

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:39 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

The car and horse analogy doesn’t apply.  The advantages are obvious of a car.  What advantage does the cane replacement company offer?  Only one, that you can travel hands free.  I don’t consider that worht spending 250 dollars for. 

 

You yourself say that a dog gives you less information about your environment.  People may be satisfied with that and that’s their choice but I really doubt that you are going to find many competent cane users who will substitute a 250 dollar device for a thirty-five dollar device when the 35 dollar device gives them more information.  and people who use a dog may have reasons they are willing to accept less information.  There are reasons people prefer dogs.  But this is not a discussion about replacing dogs with this device.  The device is offered as a replacement for the cane.  I doubt many competent cane users will pay 250 dollars for a device that probably gives them less information. 

 

I have no trouble carrying what I want to carry with one hand using a cane.  I use larger bags.  Others may prefer a back pack.  

 

As far as things like the cane breaking or a tip falling off, I’ve been traveling with canes for about fifty years and such things have almost never happened.  And you have no basis to assume that this device will be as reliable.  What if you forget to charge it.  Is the battery user replaceable?  If not, how much will it cost to replace it? 

 

And any prudent blind person who doesn’t use a dog should be a skilled cane user anyway so that in case of trouble with the device, he/she can switch to a low tech device that works very well while the problem is corrected.  I have an emergency cane.  Having two canes costs me perhaps sixty dollars.  People aren’t going to have two of these devices when they cost 250 dollars. 

 

As I said, I don’t object to a device that informs me about obstacles above the lefvel of the cane.  I do object to the attitude that the cane should be replaced and likely by something inferior. 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Nimer Jaber

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:16 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

This post is my opinion, and is not affiliated with Strap or any other entity. All opinions in this message are my own.

 

Gene,

 

People said the same thing that you're saying about horses, too. And yet, we are now driving cars.

 

Guide dogs already take away much of what the cane gives you, and dog users are quite content being dog users. With a dog, blind people go around obstacles, they don't interact with every obstacle in their path.

 

Does it count when a blind person disparages the cane and says that we need more innovation in the space to get rid of the bloody thing? Because I am one of those blind people.

 

Does it count that I want to be able to travel unencumbered with both hands free?

 

Does it count if I want to not worry about whether someone trips over my cane and breaks it? Or if the tip flies off the cane?

 

Does it matter if I don't want to worry about what happens to my upper body because that trusty cane doesn't protect it while I'm walking? Because believe me, running into scaffolding bloody hurts, and yes, I've done it.

 

Does it matter if I want to be able to actually walk in a straight line? Because, short of tapping against a wall or grass line, there isn't a way to do it with a cane.

 

Does it matter if I wish to traverse through a crowded downtown area, or any crowded environment without running into many things?

 

Does it matter if I want to be inconspicuous, and not be asked whether I, a poor blind man, require assistance to wipe my ass? Because that is essentially what happens to every single blind person I know. I am not approached about my work. I am not approached about my appearance. I am not approached about my shoes. I am not approached about anything except my blindness and someone wanting to help me because they think I am making a mistake trying to cross a street.

 

So, sorry, but we definitely need a cane replacement, in my view, and any blind person disagreeing is, frankly, a complete and utter fool. And, I would ask blind people to support the effort instead of shitting on it, because developers should be encouraged to innovate, not be discouraged by stupid posts like the one I've just read.

 

Does that mean that Strap will, indeed, replace the cane? I don't know, probably not. But it's a much better attempt than we've seen so far, with others trying to reinvent the cane by making it heavier and adding sensors to it.

 

So, I would say, support the effort. Stand by and watch, if you wish. But don't get in the way of what is possibly the most progress we've seen in a long time. We have cars that zoom on the roads autonomously. We have planes that can take off and land themselves. We have trains that can do the same, with minimal to no human interaction. We have probes going into deep space sending back pictures of Mars. And yet, the best the blind people can do, is fight to use their canes, and say they're proud of their canes.

 

I say again, if you don't or can't help, and you don't support the effort, with the nicest and most respectful intent possible, get the hell out of the way, sit down and shut up, and don't stop innovation and progress.

 

And with that, I will no longer engage in this thread, because I can see that more stupidity will be posted, and more people will come out proud to be carrying a stick.

 

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 11:57 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

Isn’t it interesting how the cane is not respected and disparaged because blind people use it?  I don’t see people trying to eliminate cars because unassisted movement is a right and is superior.

 

I’d like to see how expensive this device is.  I’d like to see how long it runs on a charge.  I’d like to see if it gives me information about my nearby environment such as where a doorway is to a building or where there is grass to my left and where that grass is interrupted by a driveway, which may be necessary for me to find with my cane to know where I turn to move toward a building and the counting of driveways and walkways may be necessary for me to know when I’m turning at the right place. 

 

Device after device has been made and they have none of them been widely adopted.  Maybe there is a reason.

 

Blindness is considered a tragedy and the ways blind people do things are often disparaged, guilt by association.  Some ways blind people do things are neutral, some inferior, some superior.  Will it be replaced at some point by something superior?  Who knows.  but its persistence and wide use should give those who chaff at the bit to eliminate it pause.

 

As G.K. Chesterton said:

“Don't ever take a fence down until you know the reason it was put up.”

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 1:39 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

Hello everyone,

 

Three years in the making, STRAP is an innovative, wearable device that fits over the chest and is designed to detect any type of obstacle. STRAP’s vast array of sensors work by sending real-time information that detects obstacles at your head, chest, and below your waist - including bumps, holes, and steps, then notifying you with haptic language vibrations. Designed for all ages and shipped globally later this year.

 

At STRAP Technologies we believe autonomy and independence are human rights; not luxuries. Our goal is to be the first replacement of the white cane, giving the visually impaired a long overdue hands free experience.

 

Use code BlindTech strap.tech, for 50% off the current total price of a STRAP device. Preorder today at this discounted price of $250 and pay only $50 at this time to reserve your STRAP. Once STRAP is shipped to you, you will be billed the remaining $200. This offer is just available with this Blind Tech Guys Code.

 

The Blind Tech Guys are pleased to offer you the above exclusive code and we are delighted to share this with our ever-growing community, so if you are keen to try this product, we encourage you to pre-order it and keep an eye out for a demo of the product to hit your ears sometime soon.

 

Warm regards,

 

Marco Curralejo

 

 

 

--

Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.


Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

 

Thank you, and have a great day!


Gene
 

If you find points implausible, just sayihng so doesn’t make your case.  What are they?  Why are they?
 
Gene

------Original Message------
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 3:37 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount
 

The reason why you thankfully didn’t get robbed is because your lucky, not because you are blind.

 

Honestly, this is getting ridiculous and you keep putting up points which are just not really that plausible, in my opinion.

 

I’m not wasting my time on this thread any longer.

 

Thanks,

 

Marco

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 6:06 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

A competent cane user knows how to swing a cane.  That is one of the first things he/she is taught and a good instructor emphasizes correct technique.  It becomes pretty much automatic, varied at times if necessary. 

 

There have been devices for decades that alert blind people to obstacles above the level a cane covers.  I haven’t looked into them so I don’t know if this device does any better.  While I would like such coverage, I have had so little problem with such higher obstacles that I haven’t pursued the option.  But I have no objedction to such a device.  I objectt to trying to replace the cane and to trying to make you not look blind.  Also, I didn’t mention that automobile drivers may be more careful if they see a cane or a dog.  I would feel safer crossing a street identified as a blind person.

 

Also, I might be safer.  Mhy brother tells the story about one evening when my brothers’ family and I were out to dinner.  Some gang members looked as though they might come over to rob us.  When they saw my cane, the head of the group signaled not to do so.  So I may be safer from crime if people know I’m blind. 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:55 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

I’m sorry, but I completely disagree.

 

A cane will only cover you from your belly button down and you’d better hope that you are swinging the right way, otherwise it doesn’t even do that.

 

If we have no innovation, this means that we are happy to just continue as we have done with an aid which has been around for over 100 years.

 

Imagine if we took the same approach with all other innovations in society, no phones, no new treatments, no advancements in any technology, no cars, no eftpos or other similar machines. For the sake of your argument, let’s remove anything that has been innovative since the cane has been a part of our lives and go back to the way it all was before that, because having some forward thinking and innovation doesn’t matter to you.

 

As I said before, do I think that this will replace the cane? No. What I’m saying is that we need to move forward from what we currently have and not just thumb our noses at a company that is trying to move things forward in a different way.

 

Finally, I go through at least 3 or 4 canes per year, so $250 is quite reasonable for my opinion. Should those who pay over $5000 for a braille display or other products not do so because of cost? Your argument on cost is ridiculous, in my opinion. Perhaps your one of these individuals that goes through a cane every five years. Who knows.

 

Marco

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 5:46 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

And I just thought of another reason that this device is a bad idea.  It is safer to be seen and known to be a blind person.  Perhaps you will get assistance more easily when you want it such as when crossing a street with turning arrows and a lot of high speed traffic.  [Perhaps you will have an easier time getting directions.  When I walk into a store, if service people see the cane, they will offer help.  How will they know I am blind as easily and as quickly if it isn’t made clear by a cane or a dog?  If you don’t have a cane, people won’t know you are blind.  This strikes me as an attempt to hide a person’s blindness.  I don’t want to hide it.  I am what I am and it shouldn’t be hidden.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Gene

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:39 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

The car and horse analogy doesn’t apply.  The advantages are obvious of a car.  What advantage does the cane replacement company offer?  Only one, that you can travel hands free.  I don’t consider that worht spending 250 dollars for. 

 

You yourself say that a dog gives you less information about your environment.  People may be satisfied with that and that’s their choice but I really doubt that you are going to find many competent cane users who will substitute a 250 dollar device for a thirty-five dollar device when the 35 dollar device gives them more information.  and people who use a dog may have reasons they are willing to accept less information.  There are reasons people prefer dogs.  But this is not a discussion about replacing dogs with this device.  The device is offered as a replacement for the cane.  I doubt many competent cane users will pay 250 dollars for a device that probably gives them less information. 

 

I have no trouble carrying what I want to carry with one hand using a cane.  I use larger bags.  Others may prefer a back pack.  

 

As far as things like the cane breaking or a tip falling off, I’ve been traveling with canes for about fifty years and such things have almost never happened.  And you have no basis to assume that this device will be as reliable.  What if you forget to charge it.  Is the battery user replaceable?  If not, how much will it cost to replace it? 

 

And any prudent blind person who doesn’t use a dog should be a skilled cane user anyway so that in case of trouble with the device, he/she can switch to a low tech device that works very well while the problem is corrected.  I have an emergency cane.  Having two canes costs me perhaps sixty dollars.  People aren’t going to have two of these devices when they cost 250 dollars. 

 

As I said, I don’t object to a device that informs me about obstacles above the lefvel of the cane.  I do object to the attitude that the cane should be replaced and likely by something inferior. 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Nimer Jaber

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:16 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

This post is my opinion, and is not affiliated with Strap or any other entity. All opinions in this message are my own.

 

Gene,

 

People said the same thing that you're saying about horses, too. And yet, we are now driving cars.

 

Guide dogs already take away much of what the cane gives you, and dog users are quite content being dog users. With a dog, blind people go around obstacles, they don't interact with every obstacle in their path.

 

Does it count when a blind person disparages the cane and says that we need more innovation in the space to get rid of the bloody thing? Because I am one of those blind people.

 

Does it count that I want to be able to travel unencumbered with both hands free?

 

Does it count if I want to not worry about whether someone trips over my cane and breaks it? Or if the tip flies off the cane?

 

Does it matter if I don't want to worry about what happens to my upper body because that trusty cane doesn't protect it while I'm walking? Because believe me, running into scaffolding bloody hurts, and yes, I've done it.

 

Does it matter if I want to be able to actually walk in a straight line? Because, short of tapping against a wall or grass line, there isn't a way to do it with a cane.

 

Does it matter if I wish to traverse through a crowded downtown area, or any crowded environment without running into many things?

 

Does it matter if I want to be inconspicuous, and not be asked whether I, a poor blind man, require assistance to wipe my ass? Because that is essentially what happens to every single blind person I know. I am not approached about my work. I am not approached about my appearance. I am not approached about my shoes. I am not approached about anything except my blindness and someone wanting to help me because they think I am making a mistake trying to cross a street.

 

So, sorry, but we definitely need a cane replacement, in my view, and any blind person disagreeing is, frankly, a complete and utter fool. And, I would ask blind people to support the effort instead of shitting on it, because developers should be encouraged to innovate, not be discouraged by stupid posts like the one I've just read.

 

Does that mean that Strap will, indeed, replace the cane? I don't know, probably not. But it's a much better attempt than we've seen so far, with others trying to reinvent the cane by making it heavier and adding sensors to it.

 

So, I would say, support the effort. Stand by and watch, if you wish. But don't get in the way of what is possibly the most progress we've seen in a long time. We have cars that zoom on the roads autonomously. We have planes that can take off and land themselves. We have trains that can do the same, with minimal to no human interaction. We have probes going into deep space sending back pictures of Mars. And yet, the best the blind people can do, is fight to use their canes, and say they're proud of their canes.

 

I say again, if you don't or can't help, and you don't support the effort, with the nicest and most respectful intent possible, get the hell out of the way, sit down and shut up, and don't stop innovation and progress.

 

And with that, I will no longer engage in this thread, because I can see that more stupidity will be posted, and more people will come out proud to be carrying a stick.

 

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 11:57 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

Isn’t it interesting how the cane is not respected and disparaged because blind people use it?  I don’t see people trying to eliminate cars because unassisted movement is a right and is superior.

 

I’d like to see how expensive this device is.  I’d like to see how long it runs on a charge.  I’d like to see if it gives me information about my nearby environment such as where a doorway is to a building or where there is grass to my left and where that grass is interrupted by a driveway, which may be necessary for me to find with my cane to know where I turn to move toward a building and the counting of driveways and walkways may be necessary for me to know when I’m turning at the right place. 

 

Device after device has been made and they have none of them been widely adopted.  Maybe there is a reason.

 

Blindness is considered a tragedy and the ways blind people do things are often disparaged, guilt by association.  Some ways blind people do things are neutral, some inferior, some superior.  Will it be replaced at some point by something superior?  Who knows.  but its persistence and wide use should give those who chaff at the bit to eliminate it pause.

 

As G.K. Chesterton said:

“Don't ever take a fence down until you know the reason it was put up.”

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 1:39 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

Hello everyone,

 

Three years in the making, STRAP is an innovative, wearable device that fits over the chest and is designed to detect any type of obstacle. STRAP’s vast array of sensors work by sending real-time information that detects obstacles at your head, chest, and below your waist - including bumps, holes, and steps, then notifying you with haptic language vibrations. Designed for all ages and shipped globally later this year.

 

At STRAP Technologies we believe autonomy and independence are human rights; not luxuries. Our goal is to be the first replacement of the white cane, giving the visually impaired a long overdue hands free experience.

 

Use code BlindTech strap.tech, for 50% off the current total price of a STRAP device. Preorder today at this discounted price of $250 and pay only $50 at this time to reserve your STRAP. Once STRAP is shipped to you, you will be billed the remaining $200. This offer is just available with this Blind Tech Guys Code.

 

The Blind Tech Guys are pleased to offer you the above exclusive code and we are delighted to share this with our ever-growing community, so if you are keen to try this product, we encourage you to pre-order it and keep an eye out for a demo of the product to hit your ears sometime soon.

 

Warm regards,

 

Marco Curralejo

 

 

 

--

Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.


Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

 

Thank you, and have a great day!


Gene
 

Here is a podcast from Blind Abilities.  It is an interview with two of the developers of Strap. 
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 3:53 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount
 
If you find points implausible, just sayihng so doesn’t make your case.  What are they?  Why are they?
 
Gene
------Original Message------
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 3:37 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount
 

The reason why you thankfully didn’t get robbed is because your lucky, not because you are blind.

 

Honestly, this is getting ridiculous and you keep putting up points which are just not really that plausible, in my opinion.

 

I’m not wasting my time on this thread any longer.

 

Thanks,

 

Marco

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 6:06 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

A competent cane user knows how to swing a cane.  That is one of the first things he/she is taught and a good instructor emphasizes correct technique.  It becomes pretty much automatic, varied at times if necessary. 

 

There have been devices for decades that alert blind people to obstacles above the level a cane covers.  I haven’t looked into them so I don’t know if this device does any better.  While I would like such coverage, I have had so little problem with such higher obstacles that I haven’t pursued the option.  But I have no objedction to such a device.  I objectt to trying to replace the cane and to trying to make you not look blind.  Also, I didn’t mention that automobile drivers may be more careful if they see a cane or a dog.  I would feel safer crossing a street identified as a blind person.

 

Also, I might be safer.  Mhy brother tells the story about one evening when my brothers’ family and I were out to dinner.  Some gang members looked as though they might come over to rob us.  When they saw my cane, the head of the group signaled not to do so.  So I may be safer from crime if people know I’m blind. 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:55 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

I’m sorry, but I completely disagree.

 

A cane will only cover you from your belly button down and you’d better hope that you are swinging the right way, otherwise it doesn’t even do that.

 

If we have no innovation, this means that we are happy to just continue as we have done with an aid which has been around for over 100 years.

 

Imagine if we took the same approach with all other innovations in society, no phones, no new treatments, no advancements in any technology, no cars, no eftpos or other similar machines. For the sake of your argument, let’s remove anything that has been innovative since the cane has been a part of our lives and go back to the way it all was before that, because having some forward thinking and innovation doesn’t matter to you.

 

As I said before, do I think that this will replace the cane? No. What I’m saying is that we need to move forward from what we currently have and not just thumb our noses at a company that is trying to move things forward in a different way.

 

Finally, I go through at least 3 or 4 canes per year, so $250 is quite reasonable for my opinion. Should those who pay over $5000 for a braille display or other products not do so because of cost? Your argument on cost is ridiculous, in my opinion. Perhaps your one of these individuals that goes through a cane every five years. Who knows.

 

Marco

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 5:46 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

And I just thought of another reason that this device is a bad idea.  It is safer to be seen and known to be a blind person.  Perhaps you will get assistance more easily when you want it such as when crossing a street with turning arrows and a lot of high speed traffic.  [Perhaps you will have an easier time getting directions.  When I walk into a store, if service people see the cane, they will offer help.  How will they know I am blind as easily and as quickly if it isn’t made clear by a cane or a dog?  If you don’t have a cane, people won’t know you are blind.  This strikes me as an attempt to hide a person’s blindness.  I don’t want to hide it.  I am what I am and it shouldn’t be hidden.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Gene

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:39 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

The car and horse analogy doesn’t apply.  The advantages are obvious of a car.  What advantage does the cane replacement company offer?  Only one, that you can travel hands free.  I don’t consider that worht spending 250 dollars for. 

 

You yourself say that a dog gives you less information about your environment.  People may be satisfied with that and that’s their choice but I really doubt that you are going to find many competent cane users who will substitute a 250 dollar device for a thirty-five dollar device when the 35 dollar device gives them more information.  and people who use a dog may have reasons they are willing to accept less information.  There are reasons people prefer dogs.  But this is not a discussion about replacing dogs with this device.  The device is offered as a replacement for the cane.  I doubt many competent cane users will pay 250 dollars for a device that probably gives them less information. 

 

I have no trouble carrying what I want to carry with one hand using a cane.  I use larger bags.  Others may prefer a back pack.  

 

As far as things like the cane breaking or a tip falling off, I’ve been traveling with canes for about fifty years and such things have almost never happened.  And you have no basis to assume that this device will be as reliable.  What if you forget to charge it.  Is the battery user replaceable?  If not, how much will it cost to replace it? 

 

And any prudent blind person who doesn’t use a dog should be a skilled cane user anyway so that in case of trouble with the device, he/she can switch to a low tech device that works very well while the problem is corrected.  I have an emergency cane.  Having two canes costs me perhaps sixty dollars.  People aren’t going to have two of these devices when they cost 250 dollars. 

 

As I said, I don’t object to a device that informs me about obstacles above the lefvel of the cane.  I do object to the attitude that the cane should be replaced and likely by something inferior. 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Nimer Jaber

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:16 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

This post is my opinion, and is not affiliated with Strap or any other entity. All opinions in this message are my own.

 

Gene,

 

People said the same thing that you're saying about horses, too. And yet, we are now driving cars.

 

Guide dogs already take away much of what the cane gives you, and dog users are quite content being dog users. With a dog, blind people go around obstacles, they don't interact with every obstacle in their path.

 

Does it count when a blind person disparages the cane and says that we need more innovation in the space to get rid of the bloody thing? Because I am one of those blind people.

 

Does it count that I want to be able to travel unencumbered with both hands free?

 

Does it count if I want to not worry about whether someone trips over my cane and breaks it? Or if the tip flies off the cane?

 

Does it matter if I don't want to worry about what happens to my upper body because that trusty cane doesn't protect it while I'm walking? Because believe me, running into scaffolding bloody hurts, and yes, I've done it.

 

Does it matter if I want to be able to actually walk in a straight line? Because, short of tapping against a wall or grass line, there isn't a way to do it with a cane.

 

Does it matter if I wish to traverse through a crowded downtown area, or any crowded environment without running into many things?

 

Does it matter if I want to be inconspicuous, and not be asked whether I, a poor blind man, require assistance to wipe my ass? Because that is essentially what happens to every single blind person I know. I am not approached about my work. I am not approached about my appearance. I am not approached about my shoes. I am not approached about anything except my blindness and someone wanting to help me because they think I am making a mistake trying to cross a street.

 

So, sorry, but we definitely need a cane replacement, in my view, and any blind person disagreeing is, frankly, a complete and utter fool. And, I would ask blind people to support the effort instead of shitting on it, because developers should be encouraged to innovate, not be discouraged by stupid posts like the one I've just read.

 

Does that mean that Strap will, indeed, replace the cane? I don't know, probably not. But it's a much better attempt than we've seen so far, with others trying to reinvent the cane by making it heavier and adding sensors to it.

 

So, I would say, support the effort. Stand by and watch, if you wish. But don't get in the way of what is possibly the most progress we've seen in a long time. We have cars that zoom on the roads autonomously. We have planes that can take off and land themselves. We have trains that can do the same, with minimal to no human interaction. We have probes going into deep space sending back pictures of Mars. And yet, the best the blind people can do, is fight to use their canes, and say they're proud of their canes.

 

I say again, if you don't or can't help, and you don't support the effort, with the nicest and most respectful intent possible, get the hell out of the way, sit down and shut up, and don't stop innovation and progress.

 

And with that, I will no longer engage in this thread, because I can see that more stupidity will be posted, and more people will come out proud to be carrying a stick.

 

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 11:57 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

Isn’t it interesting how the cane is not respected and disparaged because blind people use it?  I don’t see people trying to eliminate cars because unassisted movement is a right and is superior.

 

I’d like to see how expensive this device is.  I’d like to see how long it runs on a charge.  I’d like to see if it gives me information about my nearby environment such as where a doorway is to a building or where there is grass to my left and where that grass is interrupted by a driveway, which may be necessary for me to find with my cane to know where I turn to move toward a building and the counting of driveways and walkways may be necessary for me to know when I’m turning at the right place. 

 

Device after device has been made and they have none of them been widely adopted.  Maybe there is a reason.

 

Blindness is considered a tragedy and the ways blind people do things are often disparaged, guilt by association.  Some ways blind people do things are neutral, some inferior, some superior.  Will it be replaced at some point by something superior?  Who knows.  but its persistence and wide use should give those who chaff at the bit to eliminate it pause.

 

As G.K. Chesterton said:

“Don't ever take a fence down until you know the reason it was put up.”

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 1:39 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

Hello everyone,

 

Three years in the making, STRAP is an innovative, wearable device that fits over the chest and is designed to detect any type of obstacle. STRAP’s vast array of sensors work by sending real-time information that detects obstacles at your head, chest, and below your waist - including bumps, holes, and steps, then notifying you with haptic language vibrations. Designed for all ages and shipped globally later this year.

 

At STRAP Technologies we believe autonomy and independence are human rights; not luxuries. Our goal is to be the first replacement of the white cane, giving the visually impaired a long overdue hands free experience.

 

Use code BlindTech strap.tech, for 50% off the current total price of a STRAP device. Preorder today at this discounted price of $250 and pay only $50 at this time to reserve your STRAP. Once STRAP is shipped to you, you will be billed the remaining $200. This offer is just available with this Blind Tech Guys Code.

 

The Blind Tech Guys are pleased to offer you the above exclusive code and we are delighted to share this with our ever-growing community, so if you are keen to try this product, we encourage you to pre-order it and keep an eye out for a demo of the product to hit your ears sometime soon.

 

Warm regards,

 

Marco Curralejo

 

 

 

--

Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.


Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

 

Thank you, and have a great day!


Gene
 

I just listened to the podcast.  it contains discussion and information that should be on the web site and that should be in the realease but isn’t or isn’t developed well.  I don’t know how useful the product will be.  Nothing was said about getting information such as being able to count driveways and walkways, which is important.  It may be that the user can get enough information about the hight of steps or a curve but I can’t be sure from the description.  Information about such things is given and from the discription of people moving using the device, it sounds as though the information allows you to know hights well, but I don’t know that. 
 
I note with interest that on the podcast, they discuss how people will know you are blind.  They are considering that question and one thing they have done is develop an armband.  It wasn’t described so I have no idea how it alerts people that you are blind.  Considering the universal knowledge of the white cane and I believe having one confers legal protection in case of traffic accident, I am far from convinced that this important advantage will be addressed at all adequately by the device for years or much longer.  The law would have to catch up and the public would have to be very aware of some sort of obvious and very easily observed new symbol.  So regardless of how well this device works, I don’t see people not using their canes for a long time or at any rate, not conspicuously displaying them where it matters to be seen as a blind person. 
 
Things like GPS systems are of obvious value.  I am not convinced that this product’s value anywhere nearly equals its price. 
 
As time goes on, if I hear convincing information, I’ll consider it and I may change my mind.  For now, there are times when an old simple technology is not worth replacing by a complex, very expensive one when the old one works well. 
 
Also, there is the question of whether my first reaction was too critical.  I don’t think so.  there are going to be a lot of people with similar reactions because we’ve seen it all before, over and over, for decades.  Enormous hype and not much to show for it.  These people need to know their market.  They would be wise to use less hype, do more real discussion and explaining on their web site and in their ;publicity releases and not to harp on the first device to completely replace the cane.  That sort of thing is exactly what puts a lot of blind people on guard.  And many blind people consider the cane to be a symbol of independence and competence.  Empahsizing that this product is the first full replacement for the cane is going to rub a lot of people the wrong way.  And it won’t replace the cane even if it can.  A lot of blind people, evenif they use the device will still conspicuously carry canes for reasons I’ve discussed, unless and until some new universal method of identification is established.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 4:24 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount
 
Here is a podcast from Blind Abilities.  It is an interview with two of the developers of Strap. 
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 3:53 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount
 
If you find points implausible, just sayihng so doesn’t make your case.  What are they?  Why are they?
 
Gene
------Original Message------
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 3:37 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount
 

The reason why you thankfully didn’t get robbed is because your lucky, not because you are blind.

 

Honestly, this is getting ridiculous and you keep putting up points which are just not really that plausible, in my opinion.

 

I’m not wasting my time on this thread any longer.

 

Thanks,

 

Marco

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 6:06 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

A competent cane user knows how to swing a cane.  That is one of the first things he/she is taught and a good instructor emphasizes correct technique.  It becomes pretty much automatic, varied at times if necessary. 

 

There have been devices for decades that alert blind people to obstacles above the level a cane covers.  I haven’t looked into them so I don’t know if this device does any better.  While I would like such coverage, I have had so little problem with such higher obstacles that I haven’t pursued the option.  But I have no objedction to such a device.  I objectt to trying to replace the cane and to trying to make you not look blind.  Also, I didn’t mention that automobile drivers may be more careful if they see a cane or a dog.  I would feel safer crossing a street identified as a blind person.

 

Also, I might be safer.  Mhy brother tells the story about one evening when my brothers’ family and I were out to dinner.  Some gang members looked as though they might come over to rob us.  When they saw my cane, the head of the group signaled not to do so.  So I may be safer from crime if people know I’m blind. 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:55 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

I’m sorry, but I completely disagree.

 

A cane will only cover you from your belly button down and you’d better hope that you are swinging the right way, otherwise it doesn’t even do that.

 

If we have no innovation, this means that we are happy to just continue as we have done with an aid which has been around for over 100 years.

 

Imagine if we took the same approach with all other innovations in society, no phones, no new treatments, no advancements in any technology, no cars, no eftpos or other similar machines. For the sake of your argument, let’s remove anything that has been innovative since the cane has been a part of our lives and go back to the way it all was before that, because having some forward thinking and innovation doesn’t matter to you.

 

As I said before, do I think that this will replace the cane? No. What I’m saying is that we need to move forward from what we currently have and not just thumb our noses at a company that is trying to move things forward in a different way.

 

Finally, I go through at least 3 or 4 canes per year, so $250 is quite reasonable for my opinion. Should those who pay over $5000 for a braille display or other products not do so because of cost? Your argument on cost is ridiculous, in my opinion. Perhaps your one of these individuals that goes through a cane every five years. Who knows.

 

Marco

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 5:46 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

And I just thought of another reason that this device is a bad idea.  It is safer to be seen and known to be a blind person.  Perhaps you will get assistance more easily when you want it such as when crossing a street with turning arrows and a lot of high speed traffic.  [Perhaps you will have an easier time getting directions.  When I walk into a store, if service people see the cane, they will offer help.  How will they know I am blind as easily and as quickly if it isn’t made clear by a cane or a dog?  If you don’t have a cane, people won’t know you are blind.  This strikes me as an attempt to hide a person’s blindness.  I don’t want to hide it.  I am what I am and it shouldn’t be hidden.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Gene

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:39 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

The car and horse analogy doesn’t apply.  The advantages are obvious of a car.  What advantage does the cane replacement company offer?  Only one, that you can travel hands free.  I don’t consider that worht spending 250 dollars for. 

 

You yourself say that a dog gives you less information about your environment.  People may be satisfied with that and that’s their choice but I really doubt that you are going to find many competent cane users who will substitute a 250 dollar device for a thirty-five dollar device when the 35 dollar device gives them more information.  and people who use a dog may have reasons they are willing to accept less information.  There are reasons people prefer dogs.  But this is not a discussion about replacing dogs with this device.  The device is offered as a replacement for the cane.  I doubt many competent cane users will pay 250 dollars for a device that probably gives them less information. 

 

I have no trouble carrying what I want to carry with one hand using a cane.  I use larger bags.  Others may prefer a back pack.  

 

As far as things like the cane breaking or a tip falling off, I’ve been traveling with canes for about fifty years and such things have almost never happened.  And you have no basis to assume that this device will be as reliable.  What if you forget to charge it.  Is the battery user replaceable?  If not, how much will it cost to replace it? 

 

And any prudent blind person who doesn’t use a dog should be a skilled cane user anyway so that in case of trouble with the device, he/she can switch to a low tech device that works very well while the problem is corrected.  I have an emergency cane.  Having two canes costs me perhaps sixty dollars.  People aren’t going to have two of these devices when they cost 250 dollars. 

 

As I said, I don’t object to a device that informs me about obstacles above the lefvel of the cane.  I do object to the attitude that the cane should be replaced and likely by something inferior. 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Nimer Jaber

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:16 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

This post is my opinion, and is not affiliated with Strap or any other entity. All opinions in this message are my own.

 

Gene,

 

People said the same thing that you're saying about horses, too. And yet, we are now driving cars.

 

Guide dogs already take away much of what the cane gives you, and dog users are quite content being dog users. With a dog, blind people go around obstacles, they don't interact with every obstacle in their path.

 

Does it count when a blind person disparages the cane and says that we need more innovation in the space to get rid of the bloody thing? Because I am one of those blind people.

 

Does it count that I want to be able to travel unencumbered with both hands free?

 

Does it count if I want to not worry about whether someone trips over my cane and breaks it? Or if the tip flies off the cane?

 

Does it matter if I don't want to worry about what happens to my upper body because that trusty cane doesn't protect it while I'm walking? Because believe me, running into scaffolding bloody hurts, and yes, I've done it.

 

Does it matter if I want to be able to actually walk in a straight line? Because, short of tapping against a wall or grass line, there isn't a way to do it with a cane.

 

Does it matter if I wish to traverse through a crowded downtown area, or any crowded environment without running into many things?

 

Does it matter if I want to be inconspicuous, and not be asked whether I, a poor blind man, require assistance to wipe my ass? Because that is essentially what happens to every single blind person I know. I am not approached about my work. I am not approached about my appearance. I am not approached about my shoes. I am not approached about anything except my blindness and someone wanting to help me because they think I am making a mistake trying to cross a street.

 

So, sorry, but we definitely need a cane replacement, in my view, and any blind person disagreeing is, frankly, a complete and utter fool. And, I would ask blind people to support the effort instead of shitting on it, because developers should be encouraged to innovate, not be discouraged by stupid posts like the one I've just read.

 

Does that mean that Strap will, indeed, replace the cane? I don't know, probably not. But it's a much better attempt than we've seen so far, with others trying to reinvent the cane by making it heavier and adding sensors to it.

 

So, I would say, support the effort. Stand by and watch, if you wish. But don't get in the way of what is possibly the most progress we've seen in a long time. We have cars that zoom on the roads autonomously. We have planes that can take off and land themselves. We have trains that can do the same, with minimal to no human interaction. We have probes going into deep space sending back pictures of Mars. And yet, the best the blind people can do, is fight to use their canes, and say they're proud of their canes.

 

I say again, if you don't or can't help, and you don't support the effort, with the nicest and most respectful intent possible, get the hell out of the way, sit down and shut up, and don't stop innovation and progress.

 

And with that, I will no longer engage in this thread, because I can see that more stupidity will be posted, and more people will come out proud to be carrying a stick.

 

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 11:57 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

Isn’t it interesting how the cane is not respected and disparaged because blind people use it?  I don’t see people trying to eliminate cars because unassisted movement is a right and is superior.

 

I’d like to see how expensive this device is.  I’d like to see how long it runs on a charge.  I’d like to see if it gives me information about my nearby environment such as where a doorway is to a building or where there is grass to my left and where that grass is interrupted by a driveway, which may be necessary for me to find with my cane to know where I turn to move toward a building and the counting of driveways and walkways may be necessary for me to know when I’m turning at the right place. 

 

Device after device has been made and they have none of them been widely adopted.  Maybe there is a reason.

 

Blindness is considered a tragedy and the ways blind people do things are often disparaged, guilt by association.  Some ways blind people do things are neutral, some inferior, some superior.  Will it be replaced at some point by something superior?  Who knows.  but its persistence and wide use should give those who chaff at the bit to eliminate it pause.

 

As G.K. Chesterton said:

“Don't ever take a fence down until you know the reason it was put up.”

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 1:39 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

Hello everyone,

 

Three years in the making, STRAP is an innovative, wearable device that fits over the chest and is designed to detect any type of obstacle. STRAP’s vast array of sensors work by sending real-time information that detects obstacles at your head, chest, and below your waist - including bumps, holes, and steps, then notifying you with haptic language vibrations. Designed for all ages and shipped globally later this year.

 

At STRAP Technologies we believe autonomy and independence are human rights; not luxuries. Our goal is to be the first replacement of the white cane, giving the visually impaired a long overdue hands free experience.

 

Use code BlindTech strap.tech, for 50% off the current total price of a STRAP device. Preorder today at this discounted price of $250 and pay only $50 at this time to reserve your STRAP. Once STRAP is shipped to you, you will be billed the remaining $200. This offer is just available with this Blind Tech Guys Code.

 

The Blind Tech Guys are pleased to offer you the above exclusive code and we are delighted to share this with our ever-growing community, so if you are keen to try this product, we encourage you to pre-order it and keep an eye out for a demo of the product to hit your ears sometime soon.

 

Warm regards,

 

Marco Curralejo

 

 

 

--

Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.


Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

 

Thank you, and have a great day!


val and david paul
 

Well said Gene!

On 06/05/2021 08:46, Gene wrote:
And I just thought of another reason that this device is a bad idea.  It is safer to be seen and known to be a blind person.  Perhaps you will get assistance more easily when you want it such as when crossing a street with turning arrows and a lot of high speed traffic.  [Perhaps you will have an easier time getting directions.  When I walk into a store, if service people see the cane, they will offer help.  How will they know I am blind as easily and as quickly if it isn’t made clear by a cane or a dog?  If you don’t have a cane, people won’t know you are blind.  This strikes me as an attempt to hide a person’s blindness.  I don’t want to hide it.  I am what I am and it shouldn’t be hidden.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:39 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount
 
The car and horse analogy doesn’t apply.  The advantages are obvious of a car.  What advantage does the cane replacement company offer?  Only one, that you can travel hands free.  I don’t consider that worht spending 250 dollars for. 
 
You yourself say that a dog gives you less information about your environment.  People may be satisfied with that and that’s their choice but I really doubt that you are going to find many competent cane users who will substitute a 250 dollar device for a thirty-five dollar device when the 35 dollar device gives them more information.  and people who use a dog may have reasons they are willing to accept less information.  There are reasons people prefer dogs.  But this is not a discussion about replacing dogs with this device.  The device is offered as a replacement for the cane.  I doubt many competent cane users will pay 250 dollars for a device that probably gives them less information. 
 
I have no trouble carrying what I want to carry with one hand using a cane.  I use larger bags.  Others may prefer a back pack.  
 
As far as things like the cane breaking or a tip falling off, I’ve been traveling with canes for about fifty years and such things have almost never happened.  And you have no basis to assume that this device will be as reliable.  What if you forget to charge it.  Is the battery user replaceable?  If not, how much will it cost to replace it? 
 
And any prudent blind person who doesn’t use a dog should be a skilled cane user anyway so that in case of trouble with the device, he/she can switch to a low tech device that works very well while the problem is corrected.  I have an emergency cane.  Having two canes costs me perhaps sixty dollars.  People aren’t going to have two of these devices when they cost 250 dollars. 
 
As I said, I don’t object to a device that informs me about obstacles above the lefvel of the cane.  I do object to the attitude that the cane should be replaced and likely by something inferior. 
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:16 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount
 
This post is my opinion, and is not affiliated with Strap or any other entity. All opinions in this message are my own.
 
Gene,
 
People said the same thing that you're saying about horses, too. And yet, we are now driving cars.
 
Guide dogs already take away much of what the cane gives you, and dog users are quite content being dog users. With a dog, blind people go around obstacles, they don't interact with every obstacle in their path.
 
Does it count when a blind person disparages the cane and says that we need more innovation in the space to get rid of the bloody thing? Because I am one of those blind people.
 
Does it count that I want to be able to travel unencumbered with both hands free?
 
Does it count if I want to not worry about whether someone trips over my cane and breaks it? Or if the tip flies off the cane?
 
Does it matter if I don't want to worry about what happens to my upper body because that trusty cane doesn't protect it while I'm walking? Because believe me, running into scaffolding bloody hurts, and yes, I've done it.
 
Does it matter if I want to be able to actually walk in a straight line? Because, short of tapping against a wall or grass line, there isn't a way to do it with a cane.
 
Does it matter if I wish to traverse through a crowded downtown area, or any crowded environment without running into many things?
 
Does it matter if I want to be inconspicuous, and not be asked whether I, a poor blind man, require assistance to wipe my ass? Because that is essentially what happens to every single blind person I know. I am not approached about my work. I am not approached about my appearance. I am not approached about my shoes. I am not approached about anything except my blindness and someone wanting to help me because they think I am making a mistake trying to cross a street.
 
So, sorry, but we definitely need a cane replacement, in my view, and any blind person disagreeing is, frankly, a complete and utter fool. And, I would ask blind people to support the effort instead of shitting on it, because developers should be encouraged to innovate, not be discouraged by stupid posts like the one I've just read.
 
Does that mean that Strap will, indeed, replace the cane? I don't know, probably not. But it's a much better attempt than we've seen so far, with others trying to reinvent the cane by making it heavier and adding sensors to it.
 
So, I would say, support the effort. Stand by and watch, if you wish. But don't get in the way of what is possibly the most progress we've seen in a long time. We have cars that zoom on the roads autonomously. We have planes that can take off and land themselves. We have trains that can do the same, with minimal to no human interaction. We have probes going into deep space sending back pictures of Mars. And yet, the best the blind people can do, is fight to use their canes, and say they're proud of their canes.
 
I say again, if you don't or can't help, and you don't support the effort, with the nicest and most respectful intent possible, get the hell out of the way, sit down and shut up, and don't stop innovation and progress.
 
And with that, I will no longer engage in this thread, because I can see that more stupidity will be posted, and more people will come out proud to be carrying a stick.
 
On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 11:57 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
Isn’t it interesting how the cane is not respected and disparaged because blind people use it?  I don’t see people trying to eliminate cars because unassisted movement is a right and is superior.
 
I’d like to see how expensive this device is.  I’d like to see how long it runs on a charge.  I’d like to see if it gives me information about my nearby environment such as where a doorway is to a building or where there is grass to my left and where that grass is interrupted by a driveway, which may be necessary for me to find with my cane to know where I turn to move toward a building and the counting of driveways and walkways may be necessary for me to know when I’m turning at the right place. 
 
Device after device has been made and they have none of them been widely adopted.  Maybe there is a reason.
 
Blindness is considered a tragedy and the ways blind people do things are often disparaged, guilt by association.  Some ways blind people do things are neutral, some inferior, some superior.  Will it be replaced at some point by something superior?  Who knows.  but its persistence and wide use should give those who chaff at the bit to eliminate it pause.
 
As G.K. Chesterton said:
“Don't ever take a fence down until you know the reason it was put up.”
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 1:39 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount
 

Hello everyone,

 

Three years in the making, STRAP is an innovative, wearable device that fits over the chest and is designed to detect any type of obstacle. STRAP’s vast array of sensors work by sending real-time information that detects obstacles at your head, chest, and below your waist - including bumps, holes, and steps, then notifying you with haptic language vibrations. Designed for all ages and shipped globally later this year.

 

At STRAP Technologies we believe autonomy and independence are human rights; not luxuries. Our goal is to be the first replacement of the white cane, giving the visually impaired a long overdue hands free experience.

 

Use code BlindTech strap.tech, for 50% off the current total price of a STRAP device. Preorder today at this discounted price of $250 and pay only $50 at this time to reserve your STRAP. Once STRAP is shipped to you, you will be billed the remaining $200. This offer is just available with this Blind Tech Guys Code.

 

The Blind Tech Guys are pleased to offer you the above exclusive code and we are delighted to share this with our ever-growing community, so if you are keen to try this product, we encourage you to pre-order it and keep an eye out for a demo of the product to hit your ears sometime soon.

 

Warm regards,

 

Marco Curralejo

 

 
 
--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
 
Thank you, and have a great day!


Joe Orozco
 

Love the thought-provoking discussion! I'm not opposed to innovation.
Yet, having participated in several user testing groups where the hope
was to improve navigation for the blind, I see years later that none
of them endured beyond the prototype. I won't pretend to be
intelligent enough to understand why that is, but there is something
to be said for old methods like cane or dog that are fundamental for
any future technology to be successful. A guide dog user cannot, in my
opinion, be truly successful if they are not a strong cane user. I
would assume an individual would not fully excel with innovative
technology if they could not navigate successfully with a dog. So
maybe the aim should not be to replace proven methods, but rather,
enhance them. It would go a long way in earning the trust of the blind
community and better help the developers understand what the actual
pain points might be for the blind traveler. I do applaud the forward
thinking. I see nothing wrong with pushing the envelope.

Joe

On 5/6/21, val and david paul <valanddavidp@gmail.com> wrote:
Well said Gene!

On 06/05/2021 08:46, Gene wrote:
And I just thought of another reason that this device is a bad idea.
It is safer to be seen and known to be a blind person.  Perhaps you
will get assistance more easily when you want it such as when crossing
a street with turning arrows and a lot of high speed traffic.
[Perhaps you will have an easier time getting directions.  When I walk
into a store, if service people see the cane, they will offer help.
How will they know I am blind as easily and as quickly if it isn’t
made clear by a cane or a dog?  If you don’t have a cane, people won’t
know you are blind.  This strikes me as an attempt to hide a person’s
blindness.  I don’t want to hide it.  I am what I am and it shouldn’t
be hidden.
Gene
-----Original Message-----
*From:* Gene <mailto:gsasner@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:39 AM
*To:* main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount
The car and horse analogy doesn’t apply.  The advantages are obvious
of a car.  What advantage does the cane replacement company offer?
Only one, that you can travel hands free.  I don’t consider that worht
spending 250 dollars for.
You yourself say that a dog gives you less information about your
environment.  People may be satisfied with that and that’s their
choice but I really doubt that you are going to find many competent
cane users who will substitute a 250 dollar device for a thirty-five
dollar device when the 35 dollar device gives them more information.
and people who use a dog may have reasons they are willing to accept
less information.  There are reasons people prefer dogs. But this is
not a discussion about replacing dogs with this device.  The device is
offered as a replacement for the cane.  I doubt many competent cane
users will pay 250 dollars for a device that probably gives them less
information.
I have no trouble carrying what I want to carry with one hand using a
cane.  I use larger bags. Others may prefer a back pack.
As far as things like the cane breaking or a tip falling off, I’ve
been traveling with canes for about fifty years and such things have
almost never happened.  And you have no basis to assume that this
device will be as reliable.  What if you forget to charge it.  Is the
battery user replaceable?  If not, how much will it cost to replace it?
And any prudent blind person who doesn’t use a dog should be a skilled
cane user anyway so that in case of trouble with the device, he/she
can switch to a low tech device that works very well while the problem
is corrected.  I have an emergency cane.  Having two canes costs me
perhaps sixty dollars.  People aren’t going to have two of these
devices when they cost 250 dollars.
As I said, I don’t object to a device that informs me about obstacles
above the lefvel of the cane.  I do object to the attitude that the
cane should be replaced and likely by something inferior.
Gene
-----Original Message-----
*From:* Nimer Jaber <mailto:nimerjaber1@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:16 AM
*To:* main@techtalk.groups.io <mailto:main@techtalk.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount
This post is my opinion, and is not affiliated with Strap or any other
entity. All opinions in this message are my own.
Gene,
People said the same thing that you're saying about horses, too. And
yet, we are now driving cars.
Guide dogs already take away much of what the cane gives you, and dog
users are quite content being dog users. With a dog, blind people go
around obstacles, they don't interact with every obstacle in their path.
Does it count when a blind person disparages the cane and says that we
need more innovation in the space to get rid of the bloody thing?
Because I am one of those blind people.
Does it count that I want to be able to travel unencumbered with both
hands free?
Does it count if I want to not worry about whether someone trips over
my cane and breaks it? Or if the tip flies off the cane?
Does it matter if I don't want to worry about what happens to my upper
body because that trusty cane doesn't protect it while I'm walking?
Because believe me, running into scaffolding bloody hurts, and yes,
I've done it.
Does it matter if I want to be able to actually walk in a straight
line? Because, short of tapping against a wall or grass line, there
isn't a way to do it with a cane.
Does it matter if I wish to traverse through a crowded downtown area,
or any crowded environment without running into many things?
Does it matter if I want to be inconspicuous, and not be asked whether
I, a poor blind man, require assistance to wipe my ass? Because that
is essentially what happens to every single blind person I know. I am
not approached about my work. I am not approached about my appearance.
I am not approached about my shoes. I am not approached about anything
except my blindness and someone wanting to help me because they think
I am making a mistake trying to cross a street.
So, sorry, but we definitely need a cane replacement, in my view, and
any blind person disagreeing is, frankly, a complete and utter fool.
And, I would ask blind people to support the effort instead of
shitting on it, because developers should be encouraged to innovate,
not be discouraged by stupid posts like the one I've just read.
Does that mean that Strap will, indeed, replace the cane? I don't
know, probably not. But it's a much better attempt than we've seen so
far, with others trying to reinvent the cane by making it heavier and
adding sensors to it.
So, I would say, support the effort. Stand by and watch, if you wish.
But don't get in the way of what is possibly the most progress we've
seen in a long time. We have cars that zoom on the roads autonomously.
We have planes that can take off and land themselves. We have trains
that can do the same, with minimal to no human interaction. We have
probes going into deep space sending back pictures of Mars. And yet,
the best the blind people can do, is fight to use their canes, and say
they're proud of their canes.
I say again, if you don't or can't help, and you don't support the
effort, with the nicest and most respectful intent possible, get the
hell out of the way, sit down and shut up, and don't stop innovation
and progress.
And with that, I will no longer engage in this thread, because I can
see that more stupidity will be posted, and more people will come out
proud to be carrying a stick.
On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 11:57 PM Gene <gsasner@gmail.com
<mailto:gsasner@gmail.com>> wrote:

Isn’t it interesting how the cane is not respected and disparaged
because blind people use it?  I don’t see people trying to
eliminate cars because unassisted movement is a right and is
superior.
I’d like to see how expensive this device is.  I’d like to see how
long it runs on a charge.  I’d like to see if it gives me
information about my nearby environment such as where a doorway is
to a building or where there is grass to my left and where that
grass is interrupted by a driveway, which may be necessary for me
to find with my cane to know where I turn to move toward a
building and the counting of driveways and walkways may be
necessary for me to know when I’m turning at the right place.
Device after device has been made and they have none of them been
widely adopted.  Maybe there is a reason.
Blindness is considered a tragedy and the ways blind people do
things are often disparaged, guilt by association.  Some ways
blind people do things are neutral, some inferior, some superior.
Will it be replaced at some point by something superior?  Who
knows.  but its persistence and wide use should give those who
chaff at the bit to eliminate it pause.
As G.K. Chesterton said:
“Don't ever take a fence down until you know the reason it was put
up.”
Gene
-----Original Message-----
*From:* Marco Curralejo <mailto:marco.curr@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Thursday, May 06, 2021 1:39 AM
*To:* TechTalk@groups.io <mailto:TechTalk@groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

Hello everyone,

Three years in the making, STRAP is an innovative, wearable device
that fits over the chest and is designed to detect any type of
obstacle. STRAP’s vast array of sensors work by sending real-time
information that detects obstacles at your head, chest, and below
your waist - including bumps, holes, and steps, then notifying you
with haptic language vibrations. Designed for all ages and shipped
globally later this year.

At STRAP Technologies we believe autonomy and independence are
human rights; not luxuries. Our goal is to be the first
replacement of the white cane, giving the visually impaired a long
overdue hands free experience.

Use code BlindTech strap.tech, for 50% off the current total price
of a STRAP device. Preorder today at this discounted price of $250
and pay only $50 at this time to reserve your STRAP. Once STRAP is
shipped to you, you will be billed the remaining $200. This offer
is just available with this Blind Tech Guys Code.

The Blind Tech Guys <https://www.blindtechguys.com/>are pleased to
offer you the above exclusive code and we are delighted to share
this with our ever-growing community, so if you are keen to try
this product, we encourage you to pre-order it and keep an eye out
for a demo of the product to hit your ears sometime soon.

Warm regards,

Marco Curralejo

--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/ <http://counter.li.org/>

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for
Windows, visit nvaccess.org <http://www.nvda-project.org>

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970)
(393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
Thank you, and have a great day!





Victor
 

I don’t think anything will replace the cane anytime soon. Probably for the reasons you have stated. However, I do think that smart canes might become popular in the future. But only if they are somewhat affordable. No one is going to buy a $5000 cane. It doesn’t matter what that cane will do.

Victor


On May 6, 2021, at 3:40 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:


I just listened to the podcast.  it contains discussion and information that should be on the web site and that should be in the realease but isn’t or isn’t developed well.  I don’t know how useful the product will be.  Nothing was said about getting information such as being able to count driveways and walkways, which is important.  It may be that the user can get enough information about the hight of steps or a curve but I can’t be sure from the description.  Information about such things is given and from the discription of people moving using the device, it sounds as though the information allows you to know hights well, but I don’t know that. 
 
I note with interest that on the podcast, they discuss how people will know you are blind.  They are considering that question and one thing they have done is develop an armband.  It wasn’t described so I have no idea how it alerts people that you are blind.  Considering the universal knowledge of the white cane and I believe having one confers legal protection in case of traffic accident, I am far from convinced that this important advantage will be addressed at all adequately by the device for years or much longer.  The law would have to catch up and the public would have to be very aware of some sort of obvious and very easily observed new symbol.  So regardless of how well this device works, I don’t see people not using their canes for a long time or at any rate, not conspicuously displaying them where it matters to be seen as a blind person. 
 
Things like GPS systems are of obvious value.  I am not convinced that this product’s value anywhere nearly equals its price. 
 
As time goes on, if I hear convincing information, I’ll consider it and I may change my mind.  For now, there are times when an old simple technology is not worth replacing by a complex, very expensive one when the old one works well. 
 
Also, there is the question of whether my first reaction was too critical.  I don’t think so.  there are going to be a lot of people with similar reactions because we’ve seen it all before, over and over, for decades.  Enormous hype and not much to show for it.  These people need to know their market.  They would be wise to use less hype, do more real discussion and explaining on their web site and in their ;publicity releases and not to harp on the first device to completely replace the cane.  That sort of thing is exactly what puts a lot of blind people on guard.  And many blind people consider the cane to be a symbol of independence and competence.  Empahsizing that this product is the first full replacement for the cane is going to rub a lot of people the wrong way.  And it won’t replace the cane even if it can.  A lot of blind people, evenif they use the device will still conspicuously carry canes for reasons I’ve discussed, unless and until some new universal method of identification is established.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 4:24 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount
 
Here is a podcast from Blind Abilities.  It is an interview with two of the developers of Strap. 
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 3:53 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount
 
If you find points implausible, just sayihng so doesn’t make your case.  What are they?  Why are they?
 
Gene
------Original Message------
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 3:37 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount
 

The reason why you thankfully didn’t get robbed is because your lucky, not because you are blind.

 

Honestly, this is getting ridiculous and you keep putting up points which are just not really that plausible, in my opinion.

 

I’m not wasting my time on this thread any longer.

 

Thanks,

 

Marco

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 6:06 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

A competent cane user knows how to swing a cane.  That is one of the first things he/she is taught and a good instructor emphasizes correct technique.  It becomes pretty much automatic, varied at times if necessary. 

 

There have been devices for decades that alert blind people to obstacles above the level a cane covers.  I haven’t looked into them so I don’t know if this device does any better.  While I would like such coverage, I have had so little problem with such higher obstacles that I haven’t pursued the option.  But I have no objedction to such a device.  I objectt to trying to replace the cane and to trying to make you not look blind.  Also, I didn’t mention that automobile drivers may be more careful if they see a cane or a dog.  I would feel safer crossing a street identified as a blind person.

 

Also, I might be safer.  Mhy brother tells the story about one evening when my brothers’ family and I were out to dinner.  Some gang members looked as though they might come over to rob us.  When they saw my cane, the head of the group signaled not to do so.  So I may be safer from crime if people know I’m blind. 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:55 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

I’m sorry, but I completely disagree.

 

A cane will only cover you from your belly button down and you’d better hope that you are swinging the right way, otherwise it doesn’t even do that.

 

If we have no innovation, this means that we are happy to just continue as we have done with an aid which has been around for over 100 years.

 

Imagine if we took the same approach with all other innovations in society, no phones, no new treatments, no advancements in any technology, no cars, no eftpos or other similar machines. For the sake of your argument, let’s remove anything that has been innovative since the cane has been a part of our lives and go back to the way it all was before that, because having some forward thinking and innovation doesn’t matter to you.

 

As I said before, do I think that this will replace the cane? No. What I’m saying is that we need to move forward from what we currently have and not just thumb our noses at a company that is trying to move things forward in a different way.

 

Finally, I go through at least 3 or 4 canes per year, so $250 is quite reasonable for my opinion. Should those who pay over $5000 for a braille display or other products not do so because of cost? Your argument on cost is ridiculous, in my opinion. Perhaps your one of these individuals that goes through a cane every five years. Who knows.

 

Marco

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 5:46 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

And I just thought of another reason that this device is a bad idea.  It is safer to be seen and known to be a blind person.  Perhaps you will get assistance more easily when you want it such as when crossing a street with turning arrows and a lot of high speed traffic.  [Perhaps you will have an easier time getting directions.  When I walk into a store, if service people see the cane, they will offer help.  How will they know I am blind as easily and as quickly if it isn’t made clear by a cane or a dog?  If you don’t have a cane, people won’t know you are blind.  This strikes me as an attempt to hide a person’s blindness.  I don’t want to hide it.  I am what I am and it shouldn’t be hidden.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Gene

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:39 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

The car and horse analogy doesn’t apply.  The advantages are obvious of a car.  What advantage does the cane replacement company offer?  Only one, that you can travel hands free.  I don’t consider that worht spending 250 dollars for. 

 

You yourself say that a dog gives you less information about your environment.  People may be satisfied with that and that’s their choice but I really doubt that you are going to find many competent cane users who will substitute a 250 dollar device for a thirty-five dollar device when the 35 dollar device gives them more information.  and people who use a dog may have reasons they are willing to accept less information.  There are reasons people prefer dogs.  But this is not a discussion about replacing dogs with this device.  The device is offered as a replacement for the cane.  I doubt many competent cane users will pay 250 dollars for a device that probably gives them less information. 

 

I have no trouble carrying what I want to carry with one hand using a cane.  I use larger bags.  Others may prefer a back pack.  

 

As far as things like the cane breaking or a tip falling off, I’ve been traveling with canes for about fifty years and such things have almost never happened.  And you have no basis to assume that this device will be as reliable.  What if you forget to charge it.  Is the battery user replaceable?  If not, how much will it cost to replace it? 

 

And any prudent blind person who doesn’t use a dog should be a skilled cane user anyway so that in case of trouble with the device, he/she can switch to a low tech device that works very well while the problem is corrected.  I have an emergency cane.  Having two canes costs me perhaps sixty dollars.  People aren’t going to have two of these devices when they cost 250 dollars. 

 

As I said, I don’t object to a device that informs me about obstacles above the lefvel of the cane.  I do object to the attitude that the cane should be replaced and likely by something inferior. 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Nimer Jaber

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:16 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

This post is my opinion, and is not affiliated with Strap or any other entity. All opinions in this message are my own.

 

Gene,

 

People said the same thing that you're saying about horses, too. And yet, we are now driving cars.

 

Guide dogs already take away much of what the cane gives you, and dog users are quite content being dog users. With a dog, blind people go around obstacles, they don't interact with every obstacle in their path.

 

Does it count when a blind person disparages the cane and says that we need more innovation in the space to get rid of the bloody thing? Because I am one of those blind people.

 

Does it count that I want to be able to travel unencumbered with both hands free?

 

Does it count if I want to not worry about whether someone trips over my cane and breaks it? Or if the tip flies off the cane?

 

Does it matter if I don't want to worry about what happens to my upper body because that trusty cane doesn't protect it while I'm walking? Because believe me, running into scaffolding bloody hurts, and yes, I've done it.

 

Does it matter if I want to be able to actually walk in a straight line? Because, short of tapping against a wall or grass line, there isn't a way to do it with a cane.

 

Does it matter if I wish to traverse through a crowded downtown area, or any crowded environment without running into many things?

 

Does it matter if I want to be inconspicuous, and not be asked whether I, a poor blind man, require assistance to wipe my ass? Because that is essentially what happens to every single blind person I know. I am not approached about my work. I am not approached about my appearance. I am not approached about my shoes. I am not approached about anything except my blindness and someone wanting to help me because they think I am making a mistake trying to cross a street.

 

So, sorry, but we definitely need a cane replacement, in my view, and any blind person disagreeing is, frankly, a complete and utter fool. And, I would ask blind people to support the effort instead of shitting on it, because developers should be encouraged to innovate, not be discouraged by stupid posts like the one I've just read.

 

Does that mean that Strap will, indeed, replace the cane? I don't know, probably not. But it's a much better attempt than we've seen so far, with others trying to reinvent the cane by making it heavier and adding sensors to it.

 

So, I would say, support the effort. Stand by and watch, if you wish. But don't get in the way of what is possibly the most progress we've seen in a long time. We have cars that zoom on the roads autonomously. We have planes that can take off and land themselves. We have trains that can do the same, with minimal to no human interaction. We have probes going into deep space sending back pictures of Mars. And yet, the best the blind people can do, is fight to use their canes, and say they're proud of their canes.

 

I say again, if you don't or can't help, and you don't support the effort, with the nicest and most respectful intent possible, get the hell out of the way, sit down and shut up, and don't stop innovation and progress.

 

And with that, I will no longer engage in this thread, because I can see that more stupidity will be posted, and more people will come out proud to be carrying a stick.

 

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 11:57 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

Isn’t it interesting how the cane is not respected and disparaged because blind people use it?  I don’t see people trying to eliminate cars because unassisted movement is a right and is superior.

 

I’d like to see how expensive this device is.  I’d like to see how long it runs on a charge.  I’d like to see if it gives me information about my nearby environment such as where a doorway is to a building or where there is grass to my left and where that grass is interrupted by a driveway, which may be necessary for me to find with my cane to know where I turn to move toward a building and the counting of driveways and walkways may be necessary for me to know when I’m turning at the right place. 

 

Device after device has been made and they have none of them been widely adopted.  Maybe there is a reason.

 

Blindness is considered a tragedy and the ways blind people do things are often disparaged, guilt by association.  Some ways blind people do things are neutral, some inferior, some superior.  Will it be replaced at some point by something superior?  Who knows.  but its persistence and wide use should give those who chaff at the bit to eliminate it pause.

 

As G.K. Chesterton said:

“Don't ever take a fence down until you know the reason it was put up.”

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 1:39 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

Hello everyone,

 

Three years in the making, STRAP is an innovative, wearable device that fits over the chest and is designed to detect any type of obstacle. STRAP’s vast array of sensors work by sending real-time information that detects obstacles at your head, chest, and below your waist - including bumps, holes, and steps, then notifying you with haptic language vibrations. Designed for all ages and shipped globally later this year.

 

At STRAP Technologies we believe autonomy and independence are human rights; not luxuries. Our goal is to be the first replacement of the white cane, giving the visually impaired a long overdue hands free experience.

 

Use code BlindTech strap.tech, for 50% off the current total price of a STRAP device. Preorder today at this discounted price of $250 and pay only $50 at this time to reserve your STRAP. Once STRAP is shipped to you, you will be billed the remaining $200. This offer is just available with this Blind Tech Guys Code.

 

The Blind Tech Guys are pleased to offer you the above exclusive code and we are delighted to share this with our ever-growing community, so if you are keen to try this product, we encourage you to pre-order it and keep an eye out for a demo of the product to hit your ears sometime soon.

 

Warm regards,

 

Marco Curralejo

 

 

 

--

Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.


Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

 

Thank you, and have a great day!


Marco Curralejo
 

Very well said Joe and couldn't agree more.

On 6 May 2021 21:43:36 "Joe Orozco" <jsoro824@...> wrote:

Love the thought-provoking discussion! I'm not opposed to innovation.
Yet, having participated in several user testing groups where the hope
was to improve navigation for the blind, I see years later that none
of them endured beyond the prototype. I won't pretend to be
intelligent enough to understand why that is, but there is something
to be said for old methods like cane or dog that are fundamental for
any future technology to be successful. A guide dog user cannot, in my
opinion, be truly successful if they are not a strong cane user. I
would assume an individual would not fully excel with innovative
technology if they could not navigate successfully with a dog. So
maybe the aim should not be to replace proven methods, but rather,
enhance them. It would go a long way in earning the trust of the blind
community and better help the developers understand what the actual
pain points might be for the blind traveler. I do applaud the forward
thinking. I see nothing wrong with pushing the envelope.

Joe


On 5/6/21, val and david paul <valanddavidp@...> wrote:
Well said Gene!

On 06/05/2021 08:46, Gene wrote:
And I just thought of another reason that this device is a bad idea.
It is safer to be seen and known to be a blind person.  Perhaps you
will get assistance more easily when you want it such as when crossing
a street with turning arrows and a lot of high speed traffic.
[Perhaps you will have an easier time getting directions.  When I walk
into a store, if service people see the cane, they will offer help.
How will they know I am blind as easily and as quickly if it isn’t
made clear by a cane or a dog?  If you don’t have a cane, people won’t
know you are blind.  This strikes me as an attempt to hide a person’s
blindness.  I don’t want to hide it.  I am what I am and it shouldn’t
be hidden.
Gene
-----Original Message-----
*From:* Gene <mailto:gsasner@...>
*Sent:* Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:39 AM
*To:* main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount
The car and horse analogy doesn’t apply.  The advantages are obvious
of a car.  What advantage does the cane replacement company offer?
Only one, that you can travel hands free.  I don’t consider that worht
spending 250 dollars for.
You yourself say that a dog gives you less information about your
environment.  People may be satisfied with that and that’s their
choice but I really doubt that you are going to find many competent
cane users who will substitute a 250 dollar device for a thirty-five
dollar device when the 35 dollar device gives them more information.
and people who use a dog may have reasons they are willing to accept
less information.  There are reasons people prefer dogs. But this is
not a discussion about replacing dogs with this device.  The device is
offered as a replacement for the cane.  I doubt many competent cane
users will pay 250 dollars for a device that probably gives them less
information.
I have no trouble carrying what I want to carry with one hand using a
cane.  I use larger bags. Others may prefer a back pack.
As far as things like the cane breaking or a tip falling off, I’ve
been traveling with canes for about fifty years and such things have
almost never happened.  And you have no basis to assume that this
device will be as reliable.  What if you forget to charge it.  Is the
battery user replaceable?  If not, how much will it cost to replace it?
And any prudent blind person who doesn’t use a dog should be a skilled
cane user anyway so that in case of trouble with the device, he/she
can switch to a low tech device that works very well while the problem
is corrected.  I have an emergency cane.  Having two canes costs me
perhaps sixty dollars.  People aren’t going to have two of these
devices when they cost 250 dollars.
As I said, I don’t object to a device that informs me about obstacles
above the lefvel of the cane.  I do object to the attitude that the
cane should be replaced and likely by something inferior.
Gene
-----Original Message-----
*From:* Nimer Jaber <mailto:nimerjaber1@...>
*Sent:* Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:16 AM
*To:* main@techtalk.groups.io <mailto:main@techtalk.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount
This post is my opinion, and is not affiliated with Strap or any other
entity. All opinions in this message are my own.
Gene,
People said the same thing that you're saying about horses, too. And
yet, we are now driving cars.
Guide dogs already take away much of what the cane gives you, and dog
users are quite content being dog users. With a dog, blind people go
around obstacles, they don't interact with every obstacle in their path.
Does it count when a blind person disparages the cane and says that we
need more innovation in the space to get rid of the bloody thing?
Because I am one of those blind people.
Does it count that I want to be able to travel unencumbered with both
hands free?
Does it count if I want to not worry about whether someone trips over
my cane and breaks it? Or if the tip flies off the cane?
Does it matter if I don't want to worry about what happens to my upper
body because that trusty cane doesn't protect it while I'm walking?
Because believe me, running into scaffolding bloody hurts, and yes,
I've done it.
Does it matter if I want to be able to actually walk in a straight
line? Because, short of tapping against a wall or grass line, there
isn't a way to do it with a cane.
Does it matter if I wish to traverse through a crowded downtown area,
or any crowded environment without running into many things?
Does it matter if I want to be inconspicuous, and not be asked whether
I, a poor blind man, require assistance to wipe my ass? Because that
is essentially what happens to every single blind person I know. I am
not approached about my work. I am not approached about my appearance.
I am not approached about my shoes. I am not approached about anything
except my blindness and someone wanting to help me because they think
I am making a mistake trying to cross a street.
So, sorry, but we definitely need a cane replacement, in my view, and
any blind person disagreeing is, frankly, a complete and utter fool.
And, I would ask blind people to support the effort instead of
shitting on it, because developers should be encouraged to innovate,
not be discouraged by stupid posts like the one I've just read.
Does that mean that Strap will, indeed, replace the cane? I don't
know, probably not. But it's a much better attempt than we've seen so
far, with others trying to reinvent the cane by making it heavier and
adding sensors to it.
So, I would say, support the effort. Stand by and watch, if you wish.
But don't get in the way of what is possibly the most progress we've
seen in a long time. We have cars that zoom on the roads autonomously.
We have planes that can take off and land themselves. We have trains
that can do the same, with minimal to no human interaction. We have
probes going into deep space sending back pictures of Mars. And yet,
the best the blind people can do, is fight to use their canes, and say
they're proud of their canes.
I say again, if you don't or can't help, and you don't support the
effort, with the nicest and most respectful intent possible, get the
hell out of the way, sit down and shut up, and don't stop innovation
and progress.
And with that, I will no longer engage in this thread, because I can
see that more stupidity will be posted, and more people will come out
proud to be carrying a stick.
On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 11:57 PM Gene <gsasner@...
<mailto:gsasner@...>> wrote:

Isn’t it interesting how the cane is not respected and disparaged
because blind people use it?  I don’t see people trying to
eliminate cars because unassisted movement is a right and is
superior.
I’d like to see how expensive this device is.  I’d like to see how
long it runs on a charge.  I’d like to see if it gives me
information about my nearby environment such as where a doorway is
to a building or where there is grass to my left and where that
grass is interrupted by a driveway, which may be necessary for me
to find with my cane to know where I turn to move toward a
building and the counting of driveways and walkways may be
necessary for me to know when I’m turning at the right place.
Device after device has been made and they have none of them been
widely adopted.  Maybe there is a reason.
Blindness is considered a tragedy and the ways blind people do
things are often disparaged, guilt by association.  Some ways
blind people do things are neutral, some inferior, some superior.
Will it be replaced at some point by something superior?  Who
knows.  but its persistence and wide use should give those who
chaff at the bit to eliminate it pause.
As G.K. Chesterton said:
“Don't ever take a fence down until you know the reason it was put
up.”
Gene
-----Original Message-----
*From:* Marco Curralejo <mailto:marco.curr@...>
*Sent:* Thursday, May 06, 2021 1:39 AM
*To:* TechTalk@groups.io <mailto:TechTalk@groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

Hello everyone,

Three years in the making, STRAP is an innovative, wearable device
that fits over the chest and is designed to detect any type of
obstacle. STRAP’s vast array of sensors work by sending real-time
information that detects obstacles at your head, chest, and below
your waist - including bumps, holes, and steps, then notifying you
with haptic language vibrations. Designed for all ages and shipped
globally later this year.

At STRAP Technologies we believe autonomy and independence are
human rights; not luxuries. Our goal is to be the first
replacement of the white cane, giving the visually impaired a long
overdue hands free experience.

Use code BlindTech strap.tech, for 50% off the current total price
of a STRAP device. Preorder today at this discounted price of $250
and pay only $50 at this time to reserve your STRAP. Once STRAP is
shipped to you, you will be billed the remaining $200. This offer
is just available with this Blind Tech Guys Code.

The Blind Tech Guys <https://www.blindtechguys.com/>are pleased to
offer you the above exclusive code and we are delighted to share
this with our ever-growing community, so if you are keen to try
this product, we encourage you to pre-order it and keep an eye out
for a demo of the product to hit your ears sometime soon.

Warm regards,

Marco Curralejo

--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/ <http://counter.li.org/>

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for
Windows, visit nvaccess.org <http://www.nvda-project.org>

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970)
(393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
Thank you, and have a great day!











Nimer Jaber
 

Joe,

I would agree with you, except that the blind community would be satisfied using a Franklin Language Master rather than a touch screen on an iPhone. Some still believe, to this day, that blind people should not and cannot use touch screens. Unfortunately, the company behind Strap is not as financially well off as Apple is, and many companies in this space don't do well not only because of concepts that didn't translate well into the real world, although that is certainly part of it, but also because of negative feedback from blind people that are so resistant to change, so resistant to anything different, that they literally have to be dragged kicking and screaming to begin to accept that something might be useful.

As was clearly stated, this is a pre-order. This is not a product which has been on the market for years. Some will wait and will not adopt the technology. Completely understandable. The promo code is not for you, although you will likely pay more for waiting. For early adopters, this offer is worth the consideration, even if for no other reason than to support the innovations that we as a community, whether we realize it or not, need.

Finally, the replacement of the White Cane is polarizing. I, along with others I've spoken to, believe strongly that the cane does need replacing. Yet I will also tell you, and I'm sure the Strap developers would as well, that this is an incredibly lofty goal, unlikely to be met by the first iteration. If you are happy with your cane, you are proud of it, you see it as a status symbol, nobody will take it away from you. If you are happy using a dog, nobody will take that away from you. If you are looking for an alternative, this device may be worth trying, and this discount may be worth exploring. It certainly may be worth learning about, at any rate, and that may mean reaching out to podcasters who have met with the developers, it may mean listening to podcasts and checking out the website of Strap, it may mean reaching out to the company directly to get questions answered, etc. Hopefully, it doesn't mean spouting more garbage on this, or other groups, without an understanding of the product, without doing any kind of research, based on a short announcement with a promo code. And hopefully, if you don't like the idea of a cane replacement, you can move past that concept and on to the benefits that such a product may or may not have on your independence and mobility needs.

For anyone wishing to discuss this further, hopefully without judgement and without the misinformation and fear that Gene is so good at providing, please join the BlindTechGuys mailing list, blindtechguys+subscribe@... where you can interact with others in the community, ask your tech-related questions, join in on community events via Zoom, Telegram, and Whatsapp, check out our Facebook group, and get announcements of upcoming podcast episodes as well.

On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 4:43 AM Joe Orozco <jsoro824@...> wrote:
Love the thought-provoking discussion! I'm not opposed to innovation.
Yet, having participated in several user testing groups where the hope
was to improve navigation for the blind, I see years later that none
of them endured beyond the prototype. I won't pretend to be
intelligent enough to understand why that is, but there is something
to be said for old methods like cane or dog that are fundamental for
any future technology to be successful. A guide dog user cannot, in my
opinion, be truly successful if they are not a strong cane user. I
would assume an individual would not fully excel with innovative
technology if they could not navigate successfully with a dog. So
maybe the aim should not be to replace proven methods, but rather,
enhance them. It would go a long way in earning the trust of the blind
community and better help the developers understand what the actual
pain points might be for the blind traveler. I do applaud the forward
thinking. I see nothing wrong with pushing the envelope.

Joe


On 5/6/21, val and david paul <valanddavidp@...> wrote:
> Well said Gene!
>
> On 06/05/2021 08:46, Gene wrote:
>> And I just thought of another reason that this device is a bad idea.
>> It is safer to be seen and known to be a blind person.  Perhaps you
>> will get assistance more easily when you want it such as when crossing
>> a street with turning arrows and a lot of high speed traffic.
>> [Perhaps you will have an easier time getting directions.  When I walk
>> into a store, if service people see the cane, they will offer help.
>> How will they know I am blind as easily and as quickly if it isn’t
>> made clear by a cane or a dog?  If you don’t have a cane, people won’t
>> know you are blind.  This strikes me as an attempt to hide a person’s
>> blindness.  I don’t want to hide it.  I am what I am and it shouldn’t
>> be hidden.
>> Gene
>> -----Original Message-----
>> *From:* Gene <mailto:gsasner@...>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:39 AM
>> *To:* main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
>> *Subject:* Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount
>> The car and horse analogy doesn’t apply.  The advantages are obvious
>> of a car.  What advantage does the cane replacement company offer?
>> Only one, that you can travel hands free.  I don’t consider that worht
>> spending 250 dollars for.
>> You yourself say that a dog gives you less information about your
>> environment.  People may be satisfied with that and that’s their
>> choice but I really doubt that you are going to find many competent
>> cane users who will substitute a 250 dollar device for a thirty-five
>> dollar device when the 35 dollar device gives them more information.
>> and people who use a dog may have reasons they are willing to accept
>> less information.  There are reasons people prefer dogs. But this is
>> not a discussion about replacing dogs with this device.  The device is
>> offered as a replacement for the cane.  I doubt many competent cane
>> users will pay 250 dollars for a device that probably gives them less
>> information.
>> I have no trouble carrying what I want to carry with one hand using a
>> cane.  I use larger bags. Others may prefer a back pack.
>> As far as things like the cane breaking or a tip falling off, I’ve
>> been traveling with canes for about fifty years and such things have
>> almost never happened.  And you have no basis to assume that this
>> device will be as reliable.  What if you forget to charge it.  Is the
>> battery user replaceable?  If not, how much will it cost to replace it?
>> And any prudent blind person who doesn’t use a dog should be a skilled
>> cane user anyway so that in case of trouble with the device, he/she
>> can switch to a low tech device that works very well while the problem
>> is corrected.  I have an emergency cane.  Having two canes costs me
>> perhaps sixty dollars.  People aren’t going to have two of these
>> devices when they cost 250 dollars.
>> As I said, I don’t object to a device that informs me about obstacles
>> above the lefvel of the cane.  I do object to the attitude that the
>> cane should be replaced and likely by something inferior.
>> Gene
>> -----Original Message-----
>> *From:* Nimer Jaber <mailto:nimerjaber1@...>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:16 AM
>> *To:* main@techtalk.groups.io <mailto:main@techtalk.groups.io>
>> *Subject:* Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount
>> This post is my opinion, and is not affiliated with Strap or any other
>> entity. All opinions in this message are my own.
>> Gene,
>> People said the same thing that you're saying about horses, too. And
>> yet, we are now driving cars.
>> Guide dogs already take away much of what the cane gives you, and dog
>> users are quite content being dog users. With a dog, blind people go
>> around obstacles, they don't interact with every obstacle in their path.
>> Does it count when a blind person disparages the cane and says that we
>> need more innovation in the space to get rid of the bloody thing?
>> Because I am one of those blind people.
>> Does it count that I want to be able to travel unencumbered with both
>> hands free?
>> Does it count if I want to not worry about whether someone trips over
>> my cane and breaks it? Or if the tip flies off the cane?
>> Does it matter if I don't want to worry about what happens to my upper
>> body because that trusty cane doesn't protect it while I'm walking?
>> Because believe me, running into scaffolding bloody hurts, and yes,
>> I've done it.
>> Does it matter if I want to be able to actually walk in a straight
>> line? Because, short of tapping against a wall or grass line, there
>> isn't a way to do it with a cane.
>> Does it matter if I wish to traverse through a crowded downtown area,
>> or any crowded environment without running into many things?
>> Does it matter if I want to be inconspicuous, and not be asked whether
>> I, a poor blind man, require assistance to wipe my ass? Because that
>> is essentially what happens to every single blind person I know. I am
>> not approached about my work. I am not approached about my appearance.
>> I am not approached about my shoes. I am not approached about anything
>> except my blindness and someone wanting to help me because they think
>> I am making a mistake trying to cross a street.
>> So, sorry, but we definitely need a cane replacement, in my view, and
>> any blind person disagreeing is, frankly, a complete and utter fool.
>> And, I would ask blind people to support the effort instead of
>> shitting on it, because developers should be encouraged to innovate,
>> not be discouraged by stupid posts like the one I've just read.
>> Does that mean that Strap will, indeed, replace the cane? I don't
>> know, probably not. But it's a much better attempt than we've seen so
>> far, with others trying to reinvent the cane by making it heavier and
>> adding sensors to it.
>> So, I would say, support the effort. Stand by and watch, if you wish.
>> But don't get in the way of what is possibly the most progress we've
>> seen in a long time. We have cars that zoom on the roads autonomously.
>> We have planes that can take off and land themselves. We have trains
>> that can do the same, with minimal to no human interaction. We have
>> probes going into deep space sending back pictures of Mars. And yet,
>> the best the blind people can do, is fight to use their canes, and say
>> they're proud of their canes.
>> I say again, if you don't or can't help, and you don't support the
>> effort, with the nicest and most respectful intent possible, get the
>> hell out of the way, sit down and shut up, and don't stop innovation
>> and progress.
>> And with that, I will no longer engage in this thread, because I can
>> see that more stupidity will be posted, and more people will come out
>> proud to be carrying a stick.
>> On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 11:57 PM Gene <gsasner@...
>> <mailto:gsasner@...>> wrote:
>>
>>     Isn’t it interesting how the cane is not respected and disparaged
>>     because blind people use it?  I don’t see people trying to
>>     eliminate cars because unassisted movement is a right and is
>> superior.
>>     I’d like to see how expensive this device is.  I’d like to see how
>>     long it runs on a charge.  I’d like to see if it gives me
>>     information about my nearby environment such as where a doorway is
>>     to a building or where there is grass to my left and where that
>>     grass is interrupted by a driveway, which may be necessary for me
>>     to find with my cane to know where I turn to move toward a
>>     building and the counting of driveways and walkways may be
>>     necessary for me to know when I’m turning at the right place.
>>     Device after device has been made and they have none of them been
>>     widely adopted.  Maybe there is a reason.
>>     Blindness is considered a tragedy and the ways blind people do
>>     things are often disparaged, guilt by association.  Some ways
>>     blind people do things are neutral, some inferior, some superior.
>>     Will it be replaced at some point by something superior?  Who
>>     knows.  but its persistence and wide use should give those who
>>     chaff at the bit to eliminate it pause.
>>     As G.K. Chesterton said:
>>     “Don't ever take a fence down until you know the reason it was put
>>     up.”
>>     Gene
>>     -----Original Message-----
>>     *From:* Marco Curralejo <mailto:marco.curr@...>
>>     *Sent:* Thursday, May 06, 2021 1:39 AM
>>     *To:* TechTalk@groups.io <mailto:TechTalk@groups.io>
>>     *Subject:* Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount
>>
>>     Hello everyone,
>>
>>     Three years in the making, STRAP is an innovative, wearable device
>>     that fits over the chest and is designed to detect any type of
>>     obstacle. STRAP’s vast array of sensors work by sending real-time
>>     information that detects obstacles at your head, chest, and below
>>     your waist - including bumps, holes, and steps, then notifying you
>>     with haptic language vibrations. Designed for all ages and shipped
>>     globally later this year.
>>
>>     At STRAP Technologies we believe autonomy and independence are
>>     human rights; not luxuries. Our goal is to be the first
>>     replacement of the white cane, giving the visually impaired a long
>>     overdue hands free experience.
>>
>>     Use code BlindTech strap.tech, for 50% off the current total price
>>     of a STRAP device. Preorder today at this discounted price of $250
>>     and pay only $50 at this time to reserve your STRAP. Once STRAP is
>>     shipped to you, you will be billed the remaining $200. This offer
>>     is just available with this Blind Tech Guys Code.
>>
>>     The Blind Tech Guys <https://www.blindtechguys.com/>are pleased to
>>     offer you the above exclusive code and we are delighted to share
>>     this with our ever-growing community, so if you are keen to try
>>     this product, we encourage you to pre-order it and keep an eye out
>>     for a demo of the product to hit your ears sometime soon.
>>
>>     Warm regards,
>>
>>     Marco Curralejo
>>
>> --
>> Best,
>>
>> Nimer Jaber
>>
>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>> by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
>> criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>> attachments for security threats.
>>
>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>> http://counter.li.org/ <http://counter.li.org/>
>>
>> To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for
>> Windows, visit nvaccess.org <http://www.nvda-project.org>
>>
>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>
>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970)
>> (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>> Thank you, and have a great day!
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>







--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

Thank you, and have a great day!


Dave
 

I am a Tall man, and I find that most Tree Branches that are over Walk ways are often cut to a height of about 6 ft.  Bushes and tree limbs are something I meet more than I would like.  On regular routes I walk, I will go out very early in the morning and Clip off those low hanging limbs when no one is looking. 


Can't do this every where, but I at least cleared those areas where I walk regularly. 



Grumpy Dave

On 5/6/2021 1:06 AM, Gene wrote:
A competent cane user knows how to swing a cane.  That is one of the first things he/she is taught and a good instructor emphasizes correct technique.  It becomes pretty much automatic, varied at times if necessary. 
 
There have been devices for decades that alert blind people to obstacles above the level a cane covers.  I haven’t looked into them so I don’t know if this device does any better.  While I would like such coverage, I have had so little problem with such higher obstacles that I haven’t pursued the option.  But I have no objedction to such a device.  I objectt to trying to replace the cane and to trying to make you not look blind.  Also, I didn’t mention that automobile drivers may be more careful if they see a cane or a dog.  I would feel safer crossing a street identified as a blind person.
 
Also, I might be safer.  Mhy brother tells the story about one evening when my brothers’ family and I were out to dinner.  Some gang members looked as though they might come over to rob us.  When they saw my cane, the head of the group signaled not to do so.  So I may be safer from crime if people know I’m blind. 
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:55 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount
 

I’m sorry, but I completely disagree.

 

A cane will only cover you from your belly button down and you’d better hope that you are swinging the right way, otherwise it doesn’t even do that.

 

If we have no innovation, this means that we are happy to just continue as we have done with an aid which has been around for over 100 years.

 

Imagine if we took the same approach with all other innovations in society, no phones, no new treatments, no advancements in any technology, no cars, no eftpos or other similar machines. For the sake of your argument, let’s remove anything that has been innovative since the cane has been a part of our lives and go back to the way it all was before that, because having some forward thinking and innovation doesn’t matter to you.

 

As I said before, do I think that this will replace the cane? No. What I’m saying is that we need to move forward from what we currently have and not just thumb our noses at a company that is trying to move things forward in a different way.

 

Finally, I go through at least 3 or 4 canes per year, so $250 is quite reasonable for my opinion. Should those who pay over $5000 for a braille display or other products not do so because of cost? Your argument on cost is ridiculous, in my opinion. Perhaps your one of these individuals that goes through a cane every five years. Who knows.

 

Marco

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 5:46 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

And I just thought of another reason that this device is a bad idea.  It is safer to be seen and known to be a blind person.  Perhaps you will get assistance more easily when you want it such as when crossing a street with turning arrows and a lot of high speed traffic.  [Perhaps you will have an easier time getting directions.  When I walk into a store, if service people see the cane, they will offer help.  How will they know I am blind as easily and as quickly if it isn’t made clear by a cane or a dog?  If you don’t have a cane, people won’t know you are blind.  This strikes me as an attempt to hide a person’s blindness.  I don’t want to hide it.  I am what I am and it shouldn’t be hidden.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Gene

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:39 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

The car and horse analogy doesn’t apply.  The advantages are obvious of a car.  What advantage does the cane replacement company offer?  Only one, that you can travel hands free.  I don’t consider that worht spending 250 dollars for. 

 

You yourself say that a dog gives you less information about your environment.  People may be satisfied with that and that’s their choice but I really doubt that you are going to find many competent cane users who will substitute a 250 dollar device for a thirty-five dollar device when the 35 dollar device gives them more information.  and people who use a dog may have reasons they are willing to accept less information.  There are reasons people prefer dogs.  But this is not a discussion about replacing dogs with this device.  The device is offered as a replacement for the cane.  I doubt many competent cane users will pay 250 dollars for a device that probably gives them less information. 

 

I have no trouble carrying what I want to carry with one hand using a cane.  I use larger bags.  Others may prefer a back pack.  

 

As far as things like the cane breaking or a tip falling off, I’ve been traveling with canes for about fifty years and such things have almost never happened.  And you have no basis to assume that this device will be as reliable.  What if you forget to charge it.  Is the battery user replaceable?  If not, how much will it cost to replace it? 

 

And any prudent blind person who doesn’t use a dog should be a skilled cane user anyway so that in case of trouble with the device, he/she can switch to a low tech device that works very well while the problem is corrected.  I have an emergency cane.  Having two canes costs me perhaps sixty dollars.  People aren’t going to have two of these devices when they cost 250 dollars. 

 

As I said, I don’t object to a device that informs me about obstacles above the lefvel of the cane.  I do object to the attitude that the cane should be replaced and likely by something inferior. 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Nimer Jaber

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 2:16 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

This post is my opinion, and is not affiliated with Strap or any other entity. All opinions in this message are my own.

 

Gene,

 

People said the same thing that you're saying about horses, too. And yet, we are now driving cars.

 

Guide dogs already take away much of what the cane gives you, and dog users are quite content being dog users. With a dog, blind people go around obstacles, they don't interact with every obstacle in their path.

 

Does it count when a blind person disparages the cane and says that we need more innovation in the space to get rid of the bloody thing? Because I am one of those blind people.

 

Does it count that I want to be able to travel unencumbered with both hands free?

 

Does it count if I want to not worry about whether someone trips over my cane and breaks it? Or if the tip flies off the cane?

 

Does it matter if I don't want to worry about what happens to my upper body because that trusty cane doesn't protect it while I'm walking? Because believe me, running into scaffolding bloody hurts, and yes, I've done it.

 

Does it matter if I want to be able to actually walk in a straight line? Because, short of tapping against a wall or grass line, there isn't a way to do it with a cane.

 

Does it matter if I wish to traverse through a crowded downtown area, or any crowded environment without running into many things?

 

Does it matter if I want to be inconspicuous, and not be asked whether I, a poor blind man, require assistance to wipe my ass? Because that is essentially what happens to every single blind person I know. I am not approached about my work. I am not approached about my appearance. I am not approached about my shoes. I am not approached about anything except my blindness and someone wanting to help me because they think I am making a mistake trying to cross a street.

 

So, sorry, but we definitely need a cane replacement, in my view, and any blind person disagreeing is, frankly, a complete and utter fool. And, I would ask blind people to support the effort instead of shitting on it, because developers should be encouraged to innovate, not be discouraged by stupid posts like the one I've just read.

 

Does that mean that Strap will, indeed, replace the cane? I don't know, probably not. But it's a much better attempt than we've seen so far, with others trying to reinvent the cane by making it heavier and adding sensors to it.

 

So, I would say, support the effort. Stand by and watch, if you wish. But don't get in the way of what is possibly the most progress we've seen in a long time. We have cars that zoom on the roads autonomously. We have planes that can take off and land themselves. We have trains that can do the same, with minimal to no human interaction. We have probes going into deep space sending back pictures of Mars. And yet, the best the blind people can do, is fight to use their canes, and say they're proud of their canes.

 

I say again, if you don't or can't help, and you don't support the effort, with the nicest and most respectful intent possible, get the hell out of the way, sit down and shut up, and don't stop innovation and progress.

 

And with that, I will no longer engage in this thread, because I can see that more stupidity will be posted, and more people will come out proud to be carrying a stick.

 

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 11:57 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

Isn’t it interesting how the cane is not respected and disparaged because blind people use it?  I don’t see people trying to eliminate cars because unassisted movement is a right and is superior.

 

I’d like to see how expensive this device is.  I’d like to see how long it runs on a charge.  I’d like to see if it gives me information about my nearby environment such as where a doorway is to a building or where there is grass to my left and where that grass is interrupted by a driveway, which may be necessary for me to find with my cane to know where I turn to move toward a building and the counting of driveways and walkways may be necessary for me to know when I’m turning at the right place. 

 

Device after device has been made and they have none of them been widely adopted.  Maybe there is a reason.

 

Blindness is considered a tragedy and the ways blind people do things are often disparaged, guilt by association.  Some ways blind people do things are neutral, some inferior, some superior.  Will it be replaced at some point by something superior?  Who knows.  but its persistence and wide use should give those who chaff at the bit to eliminate it pause.

 

As G.K. Chesterton said:

“Don't ever take a fence down until you know the reason it was put up.”

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2021 1:39 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Blind Tech Guys Strap Discount

 

Hello everyone,

 

Three years in the making, STRAP is an innovative, wearable device that fits over the chest and is designed to detect any type of obstacle. STRAP’s vast array of sensors work by sending real-time information that detects obstacles at your head, chest, and below your waist - including bumps, holes, and steps, then notifying you with haptic language vibrations. Designed for all ages and shipped globally later this year.

 

At STRAP Technologies we believe autonomy and independence are human rights; not luxuries. Our goal is to be the first replacement of the white cane, giving the visually impaired a long overdue hands free experience.

 

Use code BlindTech strap.tech, for 50% off the current total price of a STRAP device. Preorder today at this discounted price of $250 and pay only $50 at this time to reserve your STRAP. Once STRAP is shipped to you, you will be billed the remaining $200. This offer is just available with this Blind Tech Guys Code.

 

The Blind Tech Guys are pleased to offer you the above exclusive code and we are delighted to share this with our ever-growing community, so if you are keen to try this product, we encourage you to pre-order it and keep an eye out for a demo of the product to hit your ears sometime soon.

 

Warm regards,

 

Marco Curralejo

 

 

 

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