Topics

Folder contents displays backwards all of a sudden


Nancy Shackelford
 

A few days ago, I got into one of my folders and discovered that
everything was being displayed just backwards from normal, so that Z
files were first and A files last. I do not have menues any more since
some of the last Windows 10 updates and cannot find how to fix this or
any other problem arising with viewing or arranging of files in
folders. Anybody have a solution? Couldn't find this anywhere in
settings; maybe I overlooked something.
Thanks in Advance,
Nance

--
Nancy Shackelford --Walk On Faith And Trust In Love - Michael Reid--


Mich Verrier
 

Hi have you checked under the view menu and made shure that decending is checked? That has happened to me in e mail before and that works. From Mich.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nancy Shackelford
Sent: January 15, 2021 6:35 AM
To: nance62lady@gmail.com
Subject: [TechTalk] Folder contents displays backwards all of a sudden

A few days ago, I got into one of my folders and discovered that
everything was being displayed just backwards from normal, so that Z
files were first and A files last. I do not have menues any more since
some of the last Windows 10 updates and cannot find how to fix this or
any other problem arising with viewing or arranging of files in
folders. Anybody have a solution? Couldn't find this anywhere in
settings; maybe I overlooked something.
Thanks in Advance,
Nance

--
Nancy Shackelford --Walk On Faith And Trust In Love - Michael Reid--


Nancy Shackelford
 

As stated in my original msg, I have no menus and can't even find how
to make them appear, so I can't check the view menu or any other.
Thanks,
Nance

--
Nancy Shackelford --Walk On Faith And Trust In Love - Michael Reid--


Gene
 

Are there ribbons? I don't know what is displayed in different parts of the program. Try maximizing the window and see what happens when you press alt if nothing does now. Also make sure nothing is selected in the list. Do this by pressing home, then control space. hold control and press space. Now open the context menu and see what is there.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Nancy Shackelford
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2021 5:47 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Folder contents displays backwards all of a sudden

As stated in my original msg, I have no menus and can't even find how
to make them appear, so I can't check the view menu or any other.
Thanks,
Nance

--
Nancy Shackelford --Walk On Faith And Trust In Love - Michael Reid--


Nancy Shackelford
 

I did manage to get ribbons, but I'm having trouble navigating them. I
have a lot to learn when it comes to ribbons. I now know more than I
knew before.
Thanks,
Nance

--
Nancy Shackelford --Walk On Faith And Trust In Love - Michael Reid--


Mike B
 


Nancy,
 
Open the folder and make sure nothing is selected.  Open the context menu using the applications key or press, Shift + F10, navigate to, Sort by, press enter, and if, descending, is not checked press enter on it to check it and this will check it and close the context menu.  If the Sort by submenu does not show along with the View and Group by submenues that means that an item is selected in the folder.  So, make sure nothing is selected / highlighted.

Stay safe and take care.  Mike.

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2021 3:47 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Folder contents displays backwards all of a sudden

As stated in my original msg, I have no menus and can't even find how
to make them appear, so I can't check the view menu or any other.
Thanks,
Nance

--
Nancy Shackelford --Walk On Faith And Trust In Love - Michael Reid--





Nancy Shackelford
 

Great advice, Mike Thanks!
Nance

--
Nancy Shackelford --Walk On Faith And Trust In Love - Michael Reid--


Gene
 

My tutorial on Ribbons is below my signature. Ribbons may take getting used to but they shouldn't be difficult for the majority of people to understand and learn to use if taught properly.

I think one of the main reasons they are feared and disliked by a lot of blind people is that a lot of people don't get instruction or good instruction in their use.

this is not a long tutorial. it discusses ribbons and their use concisely and presents examples you can try as illustrations and to get some experience in actually using ribbons as you go through the tutorial.

Gene

Ribbons are ribbons wherever you find them. This tutorial teaches you how to move through them and see or skip what you want. certain ways of movement may cause you to miss things and not have any idea that you are.

First, I'll discuss a structure found in later versions of Windows that you need to know about-- the split button.
One thing you will see as you look around ribbons and in other places in Windows are split buttons. A split button often allows you to see more options than just the default action. Let's take an example.
Let's say you come across a split button that says shut down Windows. If you press enter on that button, Windows will shut down. That is the default action. Split buttons often show more options if you either right arrow while on the button or down arrow. As an example, if you are on the shut down split button, you can right arrow and a list of options will open. the items in the list include sleep, hibernate, restart, and others. You up or down arrow through the list or use the short cut commands you hear announced as you move through the list. the letter shortcuts often take actions without pressing enter so be careful when using them, just as you are in menus.

So, let's review. You find a split button that says shut down. If you press enter, the computer will shut down. If you right arrow, other options may be displayed. Or if you down arrow, other options may be displayed. A split button won't work with both methods. One method, either right arrowing or down arrowing will do so if it can be done with the button. Try both methods if you don't know which one might work.

If you are on a tool bar which extends across the screen from left to right, down arrowing will open additional options. If the strucgture moves up and down on the screen, right arrowing will open more options. That's why if one doesn't work, try the other. If you open the options a split button offers and don't want to work with them, arrow in the opposite direction to move out of them. For example, if you right arrowed to open more options, left arrow.
Some split buttons don't do anything when you right arrow or down arrow. In that case, open them with alt down arrow. Then tab through the additional options. I've almost never worked in this way with split buttons but if you want to close a split button, try alt up arrow if you've used alt down arrow to open it.

Now, to ribbons themselves.

Regarding ribbons, much of the complaining about them is not warranted if you understand how they work and how to use short cut commands effectively and efficiently. and I would strongly recommend against using the JAWS virtual menus, no matter what the JAWS training material says about ribbons being difficult to use. the training material is just plain wrong and using virtual menus, you will be unnecessarily dependent on one screen-reader. There are other disadvantages to using them which I won't go into here. I will say regarding the dependence on one screen-reader issue that tutorials for programs that use ribbons done for blind people generally don't use the JAWS virtual ribbons and you will be greatly limiting yourself in learning such programs with tutorials if you use the JAWS virtual ribbons. The JAWS virtual ribbons are off by default so you needn't do anything if you haven't turned them on.

Try looking at ribbons and doing what is described below in wordpad. Everyone with Windows 7 and higher has the ribbon version of Wordpad on their machine.

The essence of working with ribbons is this:
Press alt to move to the upper ribbon.
You will probably be on an item that says home tab. Items on the upper ribbon are announced as tabs such as home tab, view tab, etc.
To see what ribbons are available, right or left arrow repeatedly to move through the ribbons. Move in one
direction to move through all of them, just as you would to move through all the menus.

For this demonstration, just so we are all doing the same thing, move with the right arrow. When you get back to where you started, you can keep right arrowing to move through the items again, if you wish. You can move through all the items as many times as you want. Or you can move with the left arrow whenever you want to move in the opposite direction.

Stop on view. Then start tabbing. You will move through all items in what is called the lower ribbon that are in the view ribbon.

In other words you tab to see the items in a ribbon once you move to it. Tab moves you forward through the items, shift tab moves you backword.
So tab and shift tab are used instead of up and down arrow.

Many items in the lower ribbon are buttons. Use either the space bar or enter to activate the button. You may find a button that opens a menu and if you press enter or the space bar, you will then be in a menu.

Each time you move to an item, you will hear the short cut command to work with that item.
But JAWS has a bug and you often won't. To hear the short cut, use the command JAWS key tab. If you are using the default JAWS key, it is either insert.

Try tabbing to an item in a Wordpad ribbon and using the command insert tab. You will hear some extraneous information. The last thing you will hear is the short cut sequence. You can repeat the information by repeating the command as often as you want.

Let's look at an item which is usually called the application menu. Return to the main program window in wordpad by closing the ribbons. You can either press escape repeatedly, if necessary, or you can press alt once. Now, open the ribbons again with alt.
Start right arrowing until you get to the application menu.
You will hear application menu and then something like button drop down grid. Never mind drop down grid. It's a description you don't have to worry about. The important things are that you are on a button and at the application menu. Press enter or the space bar to activate the button. Activating the button opens the menu. Start down arrowing. you will hear the item you are on and the short cut information to open or cause that item to take an action. This iss the same behavior as in any standard menu.

I told you one of the long ways to open the menu. The short cut way is alt f. When you open the menu and move through it, you will hear all the letters announced. for example, if you down arrow to save as, you will hear alt f a. that means that, when you are in the main program window, you open the menu with alt f, then type a. Alt f opens the menu and a then opens save as. In other words, alt f was chosen as the short cut way to open the single menu in ribbon programs because it allowed the preservation of commands people have used for decades, such as alt f, a, for save as.

Ribbon programs have one menu and you should look through it. Many important and common commands and interfaces such as options may be there. By options, I mean the kind of options interface you used to find in the tools menu.

Now that we have seen the menu, let's look at the ribbons structure some more.
To review, and add more information, as you have seen, you can move to the ribbon interface with alt. Then right and left arrow, just as you would move from menu to menu.
You can also move to a ribbon using alt and a letter. So, alt h takes you to the home ribbon. Alt v takes you to the view ribbon, etc. Once you are on the ribbon you want to work with, tab to move forward through the items in a ribbon. Shift tab to move back through the items. So tab and shift tab are used instead of up and down arrow.
Ribbons are divided into categories which you will hear announced as you tab. for example, in an e-mail program, a ribbon may have a category named respond. You may hear this announced as respond tool bar. As you tab, you will hear commands such as reply and forward in the respond category. When you hear a category announced, don't tab until you hear everything spoken. You will miss the first command in the category if you do. I'm talking about working with an unfamiliar ribbon.
there are often many more commands and items in a ribbon than in a menu. So memorize command sequences for items you know you will use regularly.
As I said, there are different categories in ribbons to help organize items. You can quickly jump from category to category in a ribbon to help you see if there is a category you want to look through.
Move to a ribbon in Wordpad. For example, alt h for hhome or alt v for view.
Then repeatedly issue the command control right arrow to move forward from category to category and control left arrow to move back. When you get to a category you want to hear the items in, start tabbing. Of course, you can shift tab to move back.

You can switch between moving by groups and individual items as often as you want. You can move to a group, look through the items, then continue to move by group, switching to individual items again when you find a group you want to move through by individual items.
Open a ribbon in Wordpad and tab through it to see how it is organized by moving through it.
Then use control right arrow to move by category and tab to see what is in a category.

Commands such as control o, control n, control s, control r, etc. are mostly retained in programs
that use ribbons, though you won't hear them announced. If you don't already know them, you'll have to find them in ways such as by looking at a list of keyboard commands for the program. Such lists are often available in the help for the program. If you already know the commands from having used an older version of the program, most or perhaps even all of the commands you know will work.


Ann Parsons
 

Hi all,

Gene, thanks for posting this. I don't understand what people's problem is with ribbons, they're just menus. Granted, they are horizontal, but they're still just menus!

Ann P.


Original message:

My tutorial on Ribbons is below my signature. Ribbons may take getting used
to but they shouldn't be difficult for the majority of people to understand
and learn to use if taught properly.
I think one of the main reasons they are feared and disliked by a lot of
blind people is that a lot of people don't get instruction or good
instruction in their use.
this is not a long tutorial. it discusses ribbons and their use concisely
and presents examples you can try as illustrations and to get some
experience in actually using ribbons as you go through the tutorial.
Gene
Ribbons are ribbons wherever you find them. This tutorial teaches you how
to move through them and see or skip what you want. certain ways of
movement may cause you to miss things and not have any idea that you are.
First, I'll discuss a structure found in later versions of Windows that you
need to know about-- the split button.
One thing you will see as you look around ribbons and in other places in
Windows are split buttons. A split button often allows you to see more
options than just the default action. Let's take an example.
Let's say you come across a split button that says shut down Windows. If
you press enter on that button, Windows will shut down. That is the default
action. Split buttons often show more options if you either right arrow
while on the button or down arrow. As an example, if you are on the shut
down split button, you can right arrow and a list of options will open. the
items in the list include sleep, hibernate, restart, and others. You up or
down arrow through the list or use the short cut commands you hear announced
as you move through the list. the letter shortcuts often take actions
without pressing enter so be careful when using them, just as you are in
menus.
So, let's review. You find a split button that says shut down. If you
press enter, the computer will shut down. If you right arrow, other options
may be displayed. Or if you down arrow, other options may be displayed. A
split button won't work with both methods. One method, either right
arrowing or down arrowing will do so if it can be done with the button. Try
both methods if you don't know which one might work.
If you are on a tool bar which extends across the screen from left to right,
down arrowing will open additional options. If the strucgture moves up and
down on the screen, right arrowing will open more options. That's why if
one doesn't work, try the other. If you open the options a split button
offers and don't want to work with them, arrow in the opposite direction to
move out of them. For example, if you right arrowed to open more options,
left arrow.
Some split buttons don't do anything when you right arrow or down arrow. In
that case, open them with alt down arrow. Then tab through the additional
options. I've almost never worked in this way with split buttons but if you
want to close a split button, try alt up arrow if you've used alt down arrow
to open it.
Now, to ribbons themselves.
Regarding ribbons, much of the complaining about them is not warranted if
you understand how they work and how to use short cut commands effectively
and efficiently. and I would strongly recommend against using the JAWS
virtual menus, no matter what the JAWS training material says about ribbons
being difficult to use. the training material is just plain wrong and using
virtual menus, you will be unnecessarily dependent on one screen-reader.
There are other disadvantages to using them which I won't go into here. I
will say regarding the dependence on one screen-reader issue that tutorials
for programs that use ribbons done for blind people generally don't use the
JAWS virtual ribbons and you will be greatly limiting yourself in learning
such programs with tutorials if you use the JAWS virtual ribbons. The JAWS
virtual ribbons are off by default so you needn't do anything if you haven't
turned them on.
Try looking at ribbons and doing what is described below in wordpad.
Everyone with Windows 7 and higher has the ribbon version of Wordpad on
their machine.
The essence of working with ribbons is this:
Press alt to move to the upper ribbon.
You will probably be on an item that says home tab. Items on the upper
ribbon are announced as tabs such as home tab, view tab, etc.
To see what ribbons are available, right or left arrow repeatedly to move
through the ribbons. Move in one
direction to move through all of them, just as you would to move through all
the menus.
For this demonstration, just so we are all doing the same thing, move with
the right arrow. When you get back to where you started, you can keep right
arrowing to move through the items again, if you wish. You can move through
all the items as many times as you want. Or you can move with the left arrow
whenever you want to move in the opposite direction.
Stop on view. Then start tabbing. You will move through all items in what
is called the lower ribbon that are in the view ribbon.
In other words you tab to see the items in a ribbon once you move to it.
Tab moves you forward through the items, shift tab moves you backword.
So tab and shift tab are used instead of up and down arrow.
Many items in the lower ribbon are buttons. Use either the space bar or
enter to activate the button. You may find a button that opens a menu and if
you press enter or the space bar, you will then be in a menu.
Each time you move to an item, you will hear the short cut command to work
with that item.
But JAWS has a bug and you often won't. To hear the short cut, use the
command JAWS key tab. If you are using the default JAWS key, it is either
insert.
Try tabbing to an item in a Wordpad ribbon and using the command insert tab.
You will hear some extraneous information. The last thing you will hear is
the short cut sequence. You can repeat the information by repeating the
command as often as you want.
Let's look at an item which is usually called the application menu. Return
to the main program window in wordpad by closing the ribbons. You can
either press escape repeatedly, if necessary, or you can press alt once.
Now, open the ribbons again with alt.
Start right arrowing until you get to the application menu.
You will hear application menu and then something like button drop down
grid. Never mind drop down grid. It's a description you don't have to
worry about. The important things are that you are on a button and at the
application menu. Press enter or the space bar to activate the button.
Activating the button opens the menu. Start down arrowing. you will hear
the item you are on and the short cut information to open or cause that item
to take an action. This iss the same behavior as in any standard menu.
I told you one of the long ways to open the menu. The short cut way is alt
f. When you open the menu and move through it, you will hear all the
letters announced. for example, if you down arrow to save as, you will hear
alt f a. that means that, when you are in the main program window, you open
the menu with alt f, then type a. Alt f opens the menu and a then opens
save as. In other words, alt f was chosen as the short cut way to open the
single menu in ribbon programs because it allowed the preservation of
commands people have used for decades, such as alt f, a, for save as.
Ribbon programs have one menu and you should look through it. Many
important and common commands and interfaces such as options may be there.
By options, I mean the kind of options interface you used to find in the
tools menu.
Now that we have seen the menu, let's look at the ribbons structure some
more.
To review, and add more information, as you have seen, you can move to the
ribbon interface with alt. Then right and left arrow, just as you would
move from menu to menu.
You can also move to a ribbon using alt and a letter. So, alt h takes you
to the home ribbon. Alt v takes you to the view ribbon, etc. Once you are
on the ribbon you want to work with, tab to move forward through the items
in a ribbon. Shift tab to move back through the items. So tab and shift
tab are used instead of up and down arrow.
Ribbons are divided into categories which you will hear announced as you
tab. for example, in an e-mail program, a ribbon may have a category named
respond. You may hear this announced as respond tool bar. As you tab, you
will hear commands such as reply and forward in the respond category. When
you hear a category announced, don't tab until you hear everything spoken.
You will miss the first command in the category if you do. I'm talking
about working with an unfamiliar ribbon.
there are often many more commands and items in a ribbon than in a menu. So
memorize command sequences for items you know you will use regularly.
As I said, there are different categories in ribbons to help organize items.
You can quickly jump from category to category in a ribbon to help you see
if there is a category you want to look through.
Move to a ribbon in Wordpad. For example, alt h for hhome or alt v for
view.
Then repeatedly issue the command control right arrow to move forward from
category to category and control left arrow to move back. When you get to a
category you want to hear the items in, start tabbing. Of course, you can
shift tab to move back.
You can switch between moving by groups and individual items as often as you
want. You can move to a group, look through the items, then continue to
move by group, switching to individual items again when you find a group you
want to move through by individual items.
Open a ribbon in Wordpad and tab through it to see how it is organized by
moving through it.
Then use control right arrow to move by category and tab to see what is in a
category.
Commands such as control o, control n, control s, control r, etc. are mostly
retained in programs
that use ribbons, though you won't hear them announced. If you don't already
know them, you'll have to find them in ways such as by looking at a list of
keyboard commands for the program. Such lists are often available in the
help for the program. If you already know the commands from having used an
older version of the program, most or perhaps even all of the commands you
know will work.


--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
EMAIL: akp@sero.email
Author of The Demmies: http://www.dldbooks.com/annparsons/
Portal Tutoring web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."


Nancy Shackelford
 

Glad to get this, Gene!
Nance

--
Nancy Shackelford --Walk On Faith And Trust In Love - Michael Reid--


joanne
 

I also just dont understand ribbons. That does not mean i am not willing to learn, but i cant grasp the layout and feel like i am in a maze and cant find my way to the item i want. And the upper ribbon lower ribbon thing . . . I am unable to use thunderbird or outlook or newer versions of windows live mail because the ribbons confuse me. I downloaded thunderbird and could not find my message list. They have ribbon disablers but they do not work in dmail programs. I am glad we have this group for exchanging ideas and pointers, and hopefully the ribbon concept will make sense with the help we are receiving here.


Gene
 

Thunderbird doesn't use ribbons. In thunderbird, to get efficiently to the folders list or the message list, use f6. it may save you a lot of tabbing around. F6 moves you from what is called a pane to another pane in Windows. So you may be able to move to another pane in a case like this where the main window has a lot of panes showing different fields much more quickly than by tabbing which may take you through the content in each pane and read each item in the pane, then move to the next pane. F6 will move you from one pane to another and not stop at all the different fields in every pane.

You may find my tutorial gives you the understanding you need to use ribbons. Upper ribbon is what you move through when you press alt and right or left arrow through different ribbons, just as you move from one menu to another.

When you move to the lower ribbon, you are in the items available in the ribbon you have moved to. It is analogous to down arrowing to open a menu you are at, such as the file menu, etc. In my tutorial, I may not have spoken of the upper ribbon and lower ribbon but I described right and left arrowing from ribbon to ribbon and tabbing to move through the items in the ribbon you are at.

Perhaps the reason I didn't explain those terms is that NVDA doesn't tell you when you are in the upper or lower ribbon and I didn't think of that as something people might wonder about, even after seeing my tutorial.
Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: joanne
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2021 11:21 AM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Folder contents displays backwards all of a sudden

I also just dont understand ribbons. That does not mean i am not willing to learn, but i cant grasp the layout and feel like i am in a maze and cant find my way to the item i want. And the upper ribbon lower ribbon thing . . . I am unable to use thunderbird or outlook or newer versions of windows live mail because the ribbons confuse me. I downloaded thunderbird and could not find my message list. They have ribbon disablers but they do not work in dmail programs. I am glad we have this group for exchanging ideas and pointers, and hopefully the ribbon concept will make sense with the help we are receiving here.