Giving Up on Thunderbird!


Donald L. Roberts
 

I too am using version 78 with no significant issues.


Don Roberts


On 9/29/2020 8:21 PM, Gene wrote:
Version 78.x, from my use, doesn't appear to have major or maybe not even much of minor problems now.  It works well on my machine with NVDA.

One problem was that the add-on that allowed for first letter navigation hadn't been updated but it has been now and it works with 78.x.  Its harder to find the button for setting which folders are displayed and not displayed, but I'm not sure if people use that feature to any extent.

I have no idea if updating or going back a version or two would solve your problems but that is one of the advantages of using the portable version. You can try different versions and still keep the version you are currently using on the machine.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Troy Burnham
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 10:00 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Giving Up on Thunderbird!

I just checked and I'm using version 68.12 of thunderbird. I've heard
all about 78 and am staying away from it, supposedly that version won't
be offered yet through the program, supposedly you have to go download
and install it yourself. I still keep a close eye on it just in case though.

Troy



On 9/29/2020 9:50 PM, Gene wrote:
We don't know what version of Thunderbird you are using.  it has recently been the case that Thunderbird has been updating people to version 78.x. I've said many times on different lists that I see no reason to update thunderbird if all people want to do is use it as an e-mail program.  You night try going back a version or two and seeing if that solves the problem.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Troy Burnham
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 9:23 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Giving Up on Thunderbird!

I'm using jaws and not NVDA but I have had a problem lately in
thunderbird where while I'm in a message list I'll delete a message and
jaws won't respond anymore. My fix is to arrow up and back down and this
seems to fix it but it's not a permanent fix as it happens again maybe a
few days later.

Also, once in a while I'll delete a message and jaws will say blank when
I give the say line command to read the next message header, but I know
the folder I'm in isn't empty. I have to shift tab out to my folder list
and then tab back into the folder to get jaws to refocus.

It hasn't been that long that either of these things have been
happening, and to my knowledge there has been no jaws or thunderbird
updates to cause the problem.

I can live with the work-around, I only mentioned it in case somebody
else is having one or both of these problems so you can try what works
for me to see if it works for you.

Troy



On 9/29/2020 6:06 PM, Gene wrote:
I didn't include the web page from which to get the portable version.
https://portableapps.com/apps/internet/thunderbird_portable

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Gene via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 6:02 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Giving Up on Thunderbird!

I don't know why you are having the problem.  Clearly, this isn't a general
problem.  If it was, there would be a lot of discussion from others long
before now, as you say the problem has been going on for months. I've tried
Thunderbird recently and have no such problems either with the current
version or a recent version.
It sounds to me as though something has been corrupted.  Rather than trouble
shoot, you may want to try the portable version of the program. Or you may
want to try uninstalling and reinstalling the program.  I haven't done this,
but I don't think your mail or addressbook will be lost.  I don't know if
anything else will such as add-ons or message rules.

The portable version has significant advantages and I think switching to it
is a very good idea.

First, you can easily try different versions.  You don't have to install and
uninstall different versions, nothing is installed with the portable
version.  That's one of the main points of portable versions of programs,
you can run them from anything, a thumb drive, an external hard drive, and
on any machine you wish.

If something goes wrong with the program, you can delete the copy you are
running, and copy a backup, which you have kept current, to the location you
usually run the program from.

Also, if the program updates, you can still have the backup of the current
version available.  If you don't want to use the update, you can simply
delete it and copy the backup of the old version to the location where you
run the program from.  Set the program not to automatically update, but to
warn you when an update becomes available and let you choose whether to
update to avoid the program you want to run as an older version from
updating when you don't want it to.  Make this change when you first install
the program and it will be retained in future updates and in the backup
copies you make.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Rich DeSteno
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 4:59 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Giving Up on Thunderbird!

It has been many months now that the Thunderbird email program has been
very difficult to use with a screen-reading program. Prior to that, I
used Thunderbird successfully for many years.  I mostly use NVDA with
it.  For some months now, I often lose speech and the program slows down
to an agonizing crawl.  The apparent downloading of email is announced
one by one, choking off the speech you actually want to hear. At times,
I have not even been able to accomplish anything for many minutes due to
these problems.  I disabled the mail and status toolbars, but that did
not help.  Over the last day or two, it appears that the problem has
gotten even worse.  Unless someone can suggest a solution to these
problems, I am ready to give up on this program.  Thus, I would be
interested in hearing recommendations for an email program that actually
works well with screen-reading software, including NVDA. Thanks.






















.


Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 09:51 AM, Gene wrote:
Someone with more technical knowledge and more knowledge of spam and hacking may have information that contradicts what I'm saying or someone may find information I haven't, but so far, I've seen nothing that caused me to reconsider my opinion.
-
Then, Gene, nothing would.  There are tons of articles dating from August about how some e-mail clients are far more exploitable than others with regard to mailto: links, and that some of this has been/will be fixed by updates.

It is a fool who, unless for very good reason, uses an old e-mail client or browser when updated versions are available.  And it is dirt simple to find that advice repeated, again, and again, and again.

But I will not say this again because a word to the wise is sufficient.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

Always remember that computers are just glorified light bulbs - they rarely fail in continuous use and usually go pop when turned off and on.

        ~ Technician with the username Computer Bloke, on Technibble.com


Gene
 

Please don't assume what I will or won't do. I am always willing to consider information that may mean that I am wrong or partly wrong about something. I did a number of searches and I presented arguments based on what I've seen and haven't seen over the years. It really isn't an unreasonable request to ask for information or say that others may have information I don't have. I made a good faith attempt to find information. I didn't find it.

As for your statement about someone being a fool, no, you don't have to be a fool. You can be a blind user who is tired of having unpredictable accessibility problems when an update of an e-mail program occurs and, if you haven't seen convincing evidence that it is unsafe and have seen no complaints of any blind user being hacked by malicious code in e-mails for years and all the discussion in the media I've seen has been about phishing for years, not embedded code, what I am saying is very reasonable.

If I am wrong, fine, but a fool? Hardly. If I were sighted, I wouldn't even be having this discussion.

If you want to present some links and discussion, fine. I have made a point of saying that others may know more than I do.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2020 10:21 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Giving Up on Thunderbird!

On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 09:51 AM, Gene wrote:
Someone with more technical knowledge and more knowledge of spam and hacking may have information that contradicts what I'm saying or someone may find information I haven't, but so far, I've seen nothing that caused me to reconsider my opinion.-
Then, Gene, nothing would. There are tons of articles dating from August about how some e-mail clients are far more exploitable than others with regard to mailto: links, and that some of this has been/will be fixed by updates.

It is a fool who, unless for very good reason, uses an old e-mail client or browser when updated versions are available. And it is dirt simple to find that advice repeated, again, and again, and again.

But I will not say this again because a word to the wise is sufficient.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

Always remember that computers are just glorified light bulbs - they rarely fail in continuous use and usually go pop when turned off and on.

~ Technician with the username Computer Bloke, on Technibble.com


Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Gene, you said, and I quote:  "I've seen nothing that caused me to reconsider my opinion."

Well, then, that's on you, because the search criteria I gave you was used, by me, to locate the very references I made reference to.  It is incumbent on those offered the way to find something to do additional digging.

I say again, it is a fool, unless for very good reason (which you conveniently ignored), who uses an old email client or browser when updated versions are available.

You are always going to encounter accessibility issues over time, it goes with the territory.  That's never a good reason to avoid updates for any software that has intimate contact with cyberspace on a continuous basis.  Period, end of sentence, never needs to be repeated again.  Do your darned homework. 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

Always remember that computers are just glorified light bulbs - they rarely fail in continuous use and usually go pop when turned off and on.

        ~ Technician with the username Computer Bloke, on Technibble.com


Gene
 

It is really unreasonable to lecture me about doing my homework when I spent over half an hour looking for information before you gave a suggestion of what to search for hours after the thread started. Now that you did, I have done a search and I conclude that for NVDA users who only use Windows, the threat you are alluding to is minimal. Here is a quote from one of the articles I found:
https://www.zdnet.com/article/some-email-clients-are-vulnerable-to-attacks-via-mailto-links/
The research team said it tested 20 email clients for their attack scenario and found that four clients were vulnerable. This list included:
• Evolution, the default email client for the GNOME desktop environment on Linux (see CVE-2020-11879)
• KMail, the default email client for KDE desktop environments on Linux (see CVE-2020-11880)
• IBM/HCL Notes on Windows (see CVE-2020-4089)
• Older versions of Thunderbird on Linux (now patched)

At times, when there is little danger, I believe it is justiffiable for blind people to prefer reliability over having the latest program. Such a decision should be made carefully, but there are times when it is reasonable.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2020 11:32 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Giving Up on Thunderbird!

Gene, you said, and I quote: "I've seen nothing that caused me to reconsider my opinion."

Well, then, that's on you, because the search criteria I gave you was used, by me, to locate the very references I made reference to. It is incumbent on those offered the way to find something to do additional digging.

I say again, it is a fool, unless for very good reason (which you conveniently ignored), who uses an old email client or browser when updated versions are available.

You are always going to encounter accessibility issues over time, it goes with the territory. That's never a good reason to avoid updates for any software that has intimate contact with cyberspace on a continuous basis. Period, end of sentence, never needs to be repeated again. Do your darned homework.
--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

Always remember that computers are just glorified light bulbs - they rarely fail in continuous use and usually go pop when turned off and on.

~ Technician with the username Computer Bloke, on Technibble.com


Gene
 

In my last message, quoted below, I should have said for screen-reader users who only use Windows, I shouldn't have specified NVDA.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2020 12:42 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Giving Up on Thunderbird!

It is really unreasonable to lecture me about doing my homework when I spent
over half an hour looking for information before you gave a suggestion of
what to search for hours after the thread started. Now that you did, I have
done a search and I conclude that for NVDA users who only use Windows, the
threat you are alluding to is minimal. Here is a quote from one of the
articles I found:
https://www.zdnet.com/article/some-email-clients-are-vulnerable-to-attacks-via-mailto-links/
The research team said it tested 20 email clients for their attack scenario
and found that four clients were vulnerable. This list included:
• Evolution, the default email client for the GNOME desktop environment on
Linux (see CVE-2020-11879)
• KMail, the default email client for KDE desktop environments on Linux (see
CVE-2020-11880)
• IBM/HCL Notes on Windows (see CVE-2020-4089)
• Older versions of Thunderbird on Linux (now patched)

At times, when there is little danger, I believe it is justiffiable for
blind people to prefer reliability over having the latest program. Such a
decision should be made carefully, but there are times when it is
reasonable.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2020 11:32 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Giving Up on Thunderbird!

Gene, you said, and I quote: "I've seen nothing that caused me to
reconsider my opinion."

Well, then, that's on you, because the search criteria I gave you was used,
by me, to locate the very references I made reference to. It is incumbent
on those offered the way to find something to do additional digging.

I say again, it is a fool, unless for very good reason (which you
conveniently ignored), who uses an old email client or browser when updated
versions are available.

You are always going to encounter accessibility issues over time, it goes
with the territory. That's never a good reason to avoid updates for any
software that has intimate contact with cyberspace on a continuous basis.
Period, end of sentence, never needs to be repeated again. Do your darned
homework.
--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

Always remember that computers are just glorified light bulbs - they rarely
fail in continuous use and usually go pop when turned off and on.

~ Technician with the username Computer Bloke, on Technibble.com