Advice from a user I believe is technically knowledgeable enough to say this on another list is to wait three months after a new full release of Windows such as Windows 11 comes out.  That’s to avoid bugs which haven’t been worked out yet and because there may be areas in which screen-readers don’t work as well for a time.  Of course, if people want to have the latest and are willing to put up with potential problems, that’s up to them but I think that is good advice, and I’ve seen similar advice over the years, for people who want to use Windows for getting things done reliably and dependablly and who want to upgrade but who aren’t particularly experimenters and who can wait to get the newest thing. 

Aside from that, I don’t know anything about the organization who wrote the message but they are generalizing in a manner which appears to be unjustified and makes me suspicious about their reliability.  I’m not saying these things don’t happen and they may happen enough to be a problem, but if they are happening, as the message strongly implies to everyone, then why have many people upgraded on lists like this and we haven’t heard much of anything about these problems?  and why didn;’t we hear anything during beta testing on this list? 

In short, I consider the message to be cautionary, you may have such problems but not as any sort of proof about how likely it is that you will. 

Gene

Hi Group,

I am using NVDA 2021.2 and I don't experience most of these problems. I am using the latest version of Microsoft Word from the 365 package and I do notice some sluggishness, but not as is described in this message from the Jaws-Users list.

The only major difference is that on my system--which is an HP desktop, I must click on the show hidden items chevron button and then use left/right arrow keys to highlight individual items on the system tray. This feature has effectively broken the NVDA add-on for syst tray list. 

 

-------- Forwarded Message --------

Subject:	[jfw-users] FW: Avoid Switching to Windows 11 As Long as Possible!!
Date:	Fri, 3 Dec 2021 07:39:10 -0500
From:	Jane Carona mailto:jane.e.carona@...
Reply-To:	jfw-users@groups.io
To:	jfw-users@groups.io

 

Hi everyone,

I hope it’s okay to forward the following message which I received regarding switching to Windows 11.  I know several of you have done so, but this message is so negative about Windows 11, I really want opinions as to whether it’s okay to upgrade or not.  Here’s the message I received:

 

The IT Department at Blind Industries and Services of Maryland distributed the following information:

I thought everyone should know about this.

 

We have been finding that there is a massive problem with accessibility in Windows 11. Anyone using a screen-reader in Word, for instance, will find that very often, the system is slowed so badly it is nearly crippled; this does not affect people without screen-readers, as far as we've been able to determine. There are also a great many things broken that have caused screen-reader accessibility to seriously decrease. At this stage, Microsoft are showing few or no signs that they intend to fix the situation. Some of you may be offered the chance to upgrade by your home computers, depending on how new they are (the system can't be run on an older one), and we very strongly suggest, at this point, that you refrain from trying it. In some instances, it can render the system nearly unusable. It has also been known to cause video drivers to stop working, which means that nothing will appear on the screen, and it can also cause screen-readers to refuse to start up if you are even one version out of date. We also know that the alt-tab keystroke has been broken, and we suspect that a lot of other problems have been incorporated into Windows 11 as well. Having experienced crashes and mishaps getting the system up and running ourselves, we are only just experimenting with it and do not believe we've found all the problems.

 

In the event that you would like to try an experiment at home, you absolutely must update your screen-reader fully before doing so. If you fail to do that, it probably won't load, leaving you without speech. Using Narrator to attempt to update any other screen-reader will be slow and might not work. The system has, overall, taken a rather nasty hit in the speed department that all of you, as screen-reader users, will notice in particular, and a lot of programs work erratically at best. Finally, if you do opt to try this update, we suggest that you do not try it on a computer you depend on for work or important personal tasks. Downgrading will be difficult or impossible. Again, those of you in Rehab may wish to let all your students know, and note that if you have a choice when buying a new computer, try not to purchase it with Windows 11.

 

 

-- 

Signature:

For a nation to admit it has done grevous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice;

For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement  and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!

Advice from a user I believe is technically knowledgeable enough to say this on another list is to wait three months after a new full release of Windows such as Windows 11 comes out.  That’s to avoid bugs which haven’t been worked out yet and because there may be areas in which screen-readers don’t work as well for a time.  Of course, if people want to have the latest and are willing to put up with potential problems, that’s up to them but I think that is good advice, and I’ve seen similar advice over the years, for people who want to use Windows for getting things done reliably and dependablly and who want to upgrade but who aren’t particularly experimenters and who can wait to get the newest thing. 

Aside from that, I don’t know anything about the organization who wrote the message but they are generalizing in a manner which appears to be unjustified and makes me suspicious about their reliability.  I’m not saying these things don’t happen and they may happen enough to be a problem, but if they are happening, as the message strongly implies to everyone, then why have many people upgraded on lists like this and we haven’t heard much of anything about these problems?  and why didn;’t we hear anything during beta testing on this list? 

In short, I consider the message to be cautionary, you may have such problems but not as any sort of proof about how likely it is that you will. 

Gene

Hi Group,

I am using NVDA 2021.2 and I don't experience most of these problems. I am using the latest version of Microsoft Word from the 365 package and I do notice some sluggishness, but not as is described in this message from the Jaws-Users list.

The only major difference is that on my system--which is an HP desktop, I must click on the show hidden items chevron button and then use left/right arrow keys to highlight individual items on the system tray. This feature has effectively broken the NVDA add-on for syst tray list. 

 

-------- Forwarded Message --------

Subject:	[jfw-users] FW: Avoid Switching to Windows 11 As Long as Possible!!
Date:	Fri, 3 Dec 2021 07:39:10 -0500
From:	Jane Carona mailto:jane.e.carona@...
Reply-To:	jfw-users@groups.io
To:	jfw-users@groups.io

 

Hi everyone,

I hope it’s okay to forward the following message which I received regarding switching to Windows 11.  I know several of you have done so, but this message is so negative about Windows 11, I really want opinions as to whether it’s okay to upgrade or not.  Here’s the message I received:

 

The IT Department at Blind Industries and Services of Maryland distributed the following information:

I thought everyone should know about this.

 

We have been finding that there is a massive problem with accessibility in Windows 11. Anyone using a screen-reader in Word, for instance, will find that very often, the system is slowed so badly it is nearly crippled; this does not affect people without screen-readers, as far as we've been able to determine. There are also a great many things broken that have caused screen-reader accessibility to seriously decrease. At this stage, Microsoft are showing few or no signs that they intend to fix the situation. Some of you may be offered the chance to upgrade by your home computers, depending on how new they are (the system can't be run on an older one), and we very strongly suggest, at this point, that you refrain from trying it. In some instances, it can render the system nearly unusable. It has also been known to cause video drivers to stop working, which means that nothing will appear on the screen, and it can also cause screen-readers to refuse to start up if you are even one version out of date. We also know that the alt-tab keystroke has been broken, and we suspect that a lot of other problems have been incorporated into Windows 11 as well. Having experienced crashes and mishaps getting the system up and running ourselves, we are only just experimenting with it and do not believe we've found all the problems.

 

In the event that you would like to try an experiment at home, you absolutely must update your screen-reader fully before doing so. If you fail to do that, it probably won't load, leaving you without speech. Using Narrator to attempt to update any other screen-reader will be slow and might not work. The system has, overall, taken a rather nasty hit in the speed department that all of you, as screen-reader users, will notice in particular, and a lot of programs work erratically at best. Finally, if you do opt to try this update, we suggest that you do not try it on a computer you depend on for work or important personal tasks. Downgrading will be difficult or impossible. Again, those of you in Rehab may wish to let all your students know, and note that if you have a choice when buying a new computer, try not to purchase it with Windows 11.

 

 

-- 

Signature:

For a nation to admit it has done grevous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice;

For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement  and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!

I forgot to include the link:

https://www.cnet.com/tech/computing/microsoft-windows-11-review/

Well, problems are in all new operating systems. the accessibility issues are not excluded from this list.

However, regardless of the cons against the operating system. What are the pros?

This is my concern. Not the problems because eventually these problems are going to be fix. What are going to be the advantages that could convince users to install Windows 11?

This is like the last IO’s updates. No much new. The same thing just a few appearance changes on the surface.

And have they tried different configs from different computers?

I’d think by now the pitch forks would be out if there were really this many problems across the  board.

John

-- 

Signature:

For a nation to admit it has done grevous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice;

For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement  and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!

I forgot to include the link:

https://www.cnet.com/tech/computing/microsoft-windows-11-review/

Well, problems are in all new operating systems. the accessibility issues are not excluded from this list.

However, regardless of the cons against the operating system. What are the pros?

This is my concern. Not the problems because eventually these problems are going to be fix. What are going to be the advantages that could convince users to install Windows 11?

This is like the last IO’s updates. No much new. The same thing just a few appearance changes on the surface.

And have they tried different configs from different computers?

I’d think by now the pitch forks would be out if there were really this many problems across the  board.

John

-- 

Signature:

For a nation to admit it has done grevous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice;

For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement  and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!