Narrator


Marie Nelson
 

I was giving Narrator a try while using Outlook. It works quite well while going through and reading the messages I have received. However, when I tried creating a new message, all was fine until I typed part of the message in the body of the email. I was not able to navigate back to read what I had typed and even when I unloaded Narrator and loaded Jaws, there seemed to be no text in the body of the message?

Any suggestions welcome.

And by the way, it worked very well in Word except during the say-all when I could not stop it from speaking any grammatical errors within the document. In addition I think the Microsoft David Desktop is much more responsive and clearer in pronounciation.

Thanks, Marie

 


Gene
 

Microsoft David is better and clearer than what?

Gene

On 8/13/2022 5:23 PM, Marie Nelson wrote:

I was giving Narrator a try while using Outlook. It works quite well while going through and reading the messages I have received. However, when I tried creating a new message, all was fine until I typed part of the message in the body of the email. I was not able to navigate back to read what I had typed and even when I unloaded Narrator and loaded Jaws, there seemed to be no text in the body of the message?

Any suggestions welcome.

And by the way, it worked very well in Word except during the say-all when I could not stop it from speaking any grammatical errors within the document. In addition I think the Microsoft David Desktop is much more responsive and clearer in pronounciation.

Thanks, Marie

 



Marie Nelson
 

It is called Desktop David and is clearer and more responsive than the regular MS David. I jus saw it as an option when selecting a narrator voice in Windows settings.

 

Marie

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2022 4:01 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Narrator

 

Microsoft David is better and clearer than what?

Gene

On 8/13/2022 5:23 PM, Marie Nelson wrote:

I was giving Narrator a try while using Outlook. It works quite well while going through and reading the messages I have received. However, when I tried creating a new message, all was fine until I typed part of the message in the body of the email. I was not able to navigate back to read what I had typed and even when I unloaded Narrator and loaded Jaws, there seemed to be no text in the body of the message?

Any suggestions welcome.

And by the way, it worked very well in Word except during the say-all when I could not stop it from speaking any grammatical errors within the document. In addition I think the Microsoft David Desktop is much more responsive and clearer in pronounciation.

Thanks, Marie

 

 


John Holcomb II
 

The regular MS David is the mobile smaller sized install.

John

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Marie Nelson
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2022 7:09 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Narrator

 

It is called Desktop David and is clearer and more responsive than the regular MS David. I jus saw it as an option when selecting a narrator voice in Windows settings.

 

Marie

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2022 4:01 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Narrator

 

Microsoft David is better and clearer than what?

Gene

On 8/13/2022 5:23 PM, Marie Nelson wrote:

I was giving Narrator a try while using Outlook. It works quite well while going through and reading the messages I have received. However, when I tried creating a new message, all was fine until I typed part of the message in the body of the email. I was not able to navigate back to read what I had typed and even when I unloaded Narrator and loaded Jaws, there seemed to be no text in the body of the message?

Any suggestions welcome.

And by the way, it worked very well in Word except during the say-all when I could not stop it from speaking any grammatical errors within the document. In addition I think the Microsoft David Desktop is much more responsive and clearer in pronounciation.

Thanks, Marie

 

 


Gene
 

I played with it.  I don't think it is more responsive.  The voice is equalized differently and the actual sound of the voice is more clear but I don't think speech is any more clear.

Also, when I had it read, it ppaused for ridiculously long times at punctuation marks.  Perhaps that can be changed but on my machine, that's what it did.

I also ran Microsoft David using NVDA and, though I'd have to compare further, my initial impression without doing an A B test between screen-readers is that in NVDA the available Microsoft David voice is equalized differently than in Narrator, thus making Microsoft Dave in NVDA much more equivalent sounding to Microsoft Desktop Dave in Narrator.

You should be able to use One Core voices in JAWS also, if that is your other screen-reader.  I haven't checked to see if JAWS will use the One Core Voices NVDA does, but there are SAPI5 versions of One Core voices in Windows 10 and JAWS should be able to use them since it works with SAPI 5 voices.

If your goal is to use One Core Voices with whatever screen-reader you use, you can use them with the screen-reader you have been using unless it doesn't support SAPI 5 voices, which is doubtful.

Narrator is too limited to be a general use screen-reader, though it does much more than it used to.

Gene

On 8/13/2022 6:09 PM, Marie Nelson wrote:

It is called Desktop David and is clearer and more responsive than the regular MS David. I jus saw it as an option when selecting a narrator voice in Windows settings.

 

Marie

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2022 4:01 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Narrator

 

Microsoft David is better and clearer than what?

Gene

On 8/13/2022 5:23 PM, Marie Nelson wrote:

I was giving Narrator a try while using Outlook. It works quite well while going through and reading the messages I have received. However, when I tried creating a new message, all was fine until I typed part of the message in the body of the email. I was not able to navigate back to read what I had typed and even when I unloaded Narrator and loaded Jaws, there seemed to be no text in the body of the message?

Any suggestions welcome.

And by the way, it worked very well in Word except during the say-all when I could not stop it from speaking any grammatical errors within the document. In addition I think the Microsoft David Desktop is much more responsive and clearer in pronounciation.

Thanks, Marie

 

 



John Holcomb II
 

I’ve noticed the long pauses in sentences I’ve heard when using Microsoft Edge to read articles not using  JAWS. Its very unnatural sounding to me.

What is One Core Voices?

Thanks,

John

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2022 7:45 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Narrator

 

I played with it.  I don't think it is more responsive.  The voice is equalized differently and the actual sound of the voice is more clear but I don't think speech is any more clear.

Also, when I had it read, it ppaused for ridiculously long times at punctuation marks.  Perhaps that can be changed but on my machine, that's what it did.

I also ran Microsoft David using NVDA and, though I'd have to compare further, my initial impression without doing an A B test between screen-readers is that in NVDA the available Microsoft David voice is equalized differently than in Narrator, thus making Microsoft Dave in NVDA much more equivalent sounding to Microsoft Desktop Dave in Narrator.

You should be able to use One Core voices in JAWS also, if that is your other screen-reader.  I haven't checked to see if JAWS will use the One Core Voices NVDA does, but there are SAPI5 versions of One Core voices in Windows 10 and JAWS should be able to use them since it works with SAPI 5 voices.

If your goal is to use One Core Voices with whatever screen-reader you use, you can use them with the screen-reader you have been using unless it doesn't support SAPI 5 voices, which is doubtful.

Narrator is too limited to be a general use screen-reader, though it does much more than it used to.

Gene

On 8/13/2022 6:09 PM, Marie Nelson wrote:

It is called Desktop David and is clearer and more responsive than the regular MS David. I jus saw it as an option when selecting a narrator voice in Windows settings.

 

Marie

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2022 4:01 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Narrator

 

Microsoft David is better and clearer than what?

Gene

On 8/13/2022 5:23 PM, Marie Nelson wrote:

I was giving Narrator a try while using Outlook. It works quite well while going through and reading the messages I have received. However, when I tried creating a new message, all was fine until I typed part of the message in the body of the email. I was not able to navigate back to read what I had typed and even when I unloaded Narrator and loaded Jaws, there seemed to be no text in the body of the message?

Any suggestions welcome.

And by the way, it worked very well in Word except during the say-all when I could not stop it from speaking any grammatical errors within the document. In addition I think the Microsoft David Desktop is much more responsive and clearer in pronounciation.

Thanks, Marie

 

 

 


Gene
 

they are the voices like Microsoft David that come with Windows 10 and you can download others.  I don't know what One Core means.

Gene

On 8/13/2022 7:41 PM, John Holcomb II wrote:

I’ve noticed the long pauses in sentences I’ve heard when using Microsoft Edge to read articles not using  JAWS. Its very unnatural sounding to me.

What is One Core Voices?

Thanks,

John

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2022 7:45 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Narrator

 

I played with it.  I don't think it is more responsive.  The voice is equalized differently and the actual sound of the voice is more clear but I don't think speech is any more clear.

Also, when I had it read, it ppaused for ridiculously long times at punctuation marks.  Perhaps that can be changed but on my machine, that's what it did.

I also ran Microsoft David using NVDA and, though I'd have to compare further, my initial impression without doing an A B test between screen-readers is that in NVDA the available Microsoft David voice is equalized differently than in Narrator, thus making Microsoft Dave in NVDA much more equivalent sounding to Microsoft Desktop Dave in Narrator.

You should be able to use One Core voices in JAWS also, if that is your other screen-reader.  I haven't checked to see if JAWS will use the One Core Voices NVDA does, but there are SAPI5 versions of One Core voices in Windows 10 and JAWS should be able to use them since it works with SAPI 5 voices.

If your goal is to use One Core Voices with whatever screen-reader you use, you can use them with the screen-reader you have been using unless it doesn't support SAPI 5 voices, which is doubtful.

Narrator is too limited to be a general use screen-reader, though it does much more than it used to.

Gene

On 8/13/2022 6:09 PM, Marie Nelson wrote:

It is called Desktop David and is clearer and more responsive than the regular MS David. I jus saw it as an option when selecting a narrator voice in Windows settings.

 

Marie

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2022 4:01 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Narrator

 

Microsoft David is better and clearer than what?

Gene

On 8/13/2022 5:23 PM, Marie Nelson wrote:

I was giving Narrator a try while using Outlook. It works quite well while going through and reading the messages I have received. However, when I tried creating a new message, all was fine until I typed part of the message in the body of the email. I was not able to navigate back to read what I had typed and even when I unloaded Narrator and loaded Jaws, there seemed to be no text in the body of the message?

Any suggestions welcome.

And by the way, it worked very well in Word except during the say-all when I could not stop it from speaking any grammatical errors within the document. In addition I think the Microsoft David Desktop is much more responsive and clearer in pronounciation.

Thanks, Marie

 

 

 



heather albright
 

Hay just wondering, has anyone started a narrator list? I was asked if there was one like we have a jaws/NVDA lists out there?  Even Microsoft accessibility asks me why  there is not a list out there, I told them not that many people use narrator as their primary screen reader. I would use narrator if they had a list to discuss it like jaws and NVDA.

 Cheers Heather

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Marie Nelson
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2022 6:09 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Narrator

 

It is called Desktop David and is clearer and more responsive than the regular MS David. I jus saw it as an option when selecting a narrator voice in Windows settings.

 

Marie

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2022 4:01 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Narrator

 

Microsoft David is better and clearer than what?

Gene

On 8/13/2022 5:23 PM, Marie Nelson wrote:

I was giving Narrator a try while using Outlook. It works quite well while going through and reading the messages I have received. However, when I tried creating a new message, all was fine until I typed part of the message in the body of the email. I was not able to navigate back to read what I had typed and even when I unloaded Narrator and loaded Jaws, there seemed to be no text in the body of the message?

Any suggestions welcome.

And by the way, it worked very well in Word except during the say-all when I could not stop it from speaking any grammatical errors within the document. In addition I think the Microsoft David Desktop is much more responsive and clearer in pronounciation.

Thanks, Marie

 

 

 


Gene
 

I don't see much need for a Narrator list unless you want to discuss problems with Narrator and ways you want to tell Microsoft to improve it.  It doesn't work with too many programs.

Gene

On 8/13/2022 11:06 PM, heather albright wrote:

Hay just wondering, has anyone started a narrator list? I was asked if there was one like we have a jaws/NVDA lists out there?  Even Microsoft accessibility asks me why  there is not a list out there, I told them not that many people use narrator as their primary screen reader. I would use narrator if they had a list to discuss it like jaws and NVDA.

 Cheers Heather

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Marie Nelson
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2022 6:09 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Narrator

 

It is called Desktop David and is clearer and more responsive than the regular MS David. I jus saw it as an option when selecting a narrator voice in Windows settings.

 

Marie

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2022 4:01 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Narrator

 

Microsoft David is better and clearer than what?

Gene

On 8/13/2022 5:23 PM, Marie Nelson wrote:

I was giving Narrator a try while using Outlook. It works quite well while going through and reading the messages I have received. However, when I tried creating a new message, all was fine until I typed part of the message in the body of the email. I was not able to navigate back to read what I had typed and even when I unloaded Narrator and loaded Jaws, there seemed to be no text in the body of the message?

Any suggestions welcome.

And by the way, it worked very well in Word except during the say-all when I could not stop it from speaking any grammatical errors within the document. In addition I think the Microsoft David Desktop is much more responsive and clearer in pronounciation.

Thanks, Marie

 

 

 



Monte Single
 

Hi Gene,

 

Somewhere, I got the impression that narrator worked well with micro soft programs such as Edge, office, and the windows operating system in general.

I thought its major failure was in working with 3rd party apps.

I  have no  personal experience to support this.

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: August 13, 2022 11:23 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Narrator

 

I don't see much need for a Narrator list unless you want to discuss problems with Narrator and ways you want to tell Microsoft to improve it.  It doesn't work with too many programs.

Gene

On 8/13/2022 11:06 PM, heather albright wrote:

Hay just wondering, has anyone started a narrator list? I was asked if there was one like we have a jaws/NVDA lists out there?  Even Microsoft accessibility asks me why  there is not a list out there, I told them not that many people use narrator as their primary screen reader. I would use narrator if they had a list to discuss it like jaws and NVDA.

 Cheers Heather

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Marie Nelson
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2022 6:09 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Narrator

 

It is called Desktop David and is clearer and more responsive than the regular MS David. I jus saw it as an option when selecting a narrator voice in Windows settings.

 

Marie

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2022 4:01 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Narrator

 

Microsoft David is better and clearer than what?

Gene

On 8/13/2022 5:23 PM, Marie Nelson wrote:

I was giving Narrator a try while using Outlook. It works quite well while going through and reading the messages I have received. However, when I tried creating a new message, all was fine until I typed part of the message in the body of the email. I was not able to navigate back to read what I had typed and even when I unloaded Narrator and loaded Jaws, there seemed to be no text in the body of the message?

Any suggestions welcome.

And by the way, it worked very well in Word except during the say-all when I could not stop it from speaking any grammatical errors within the document. In addition I think the Microsoft David Desktop is much more responsive and clearer in pronounciation.

Thanks, Marie

 

 

 

 


Gene
 

That's what I heard awhile ago but I haven't played with it enough to verify that.  I can say that I've tried it with two or three browsers and, as I recall, it works with Edge, not Firefox nor Brave.

It also doesn't work with Thunderbird.

I'm not saying it doesn't work with various third party programs but I doubt it works with a lot.

Also, I don't think it has a virtual mouse nor the equivalent of object navigation.  If those things aren't true, I'd be curious to know.

Gene

On 8/14/2022 1:28 AM, Monte Single wrote:

Hi Gene,

 

Somewhere, I got the impression that narrator worked well with micro soft programs such as Edge, office, and the windows operating system in general.

I thought its major failure was in working with 3rd party apps.

I  have no  personal experience to support this.

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: August 13, 2022 11:23 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Narrator

 

I don't see much need for a Narrator list unless you want to discuss problems with Narrator and ways you want to tell Microsoft to improve it.  It doesn't work with too many programs.

Gene

On 8/13/2022 11:06 PM, heather albright wrote:

Hay just wondering, has anyone started a narrator list? I was asked if there was one like we have a jaws/NVDA lists out there?  Even Microsoft accessibility asks me why  there is not a list out there, I told them not that many people use narrator as their primary screen reader. I would use narrator if they had a list to discuss it like jaws and NVDA.

 Cheers Heather

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Marie Nelson
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2022 6:09 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Narrator

 

It is called Desktop David and is clearer and more responsive than the regular MS David. I jus saw it as an option when selecting a narrator voice in Windows settings.

 

Marie

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2022 4:01 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Narrator

 

Microsoft David is better and clearer than what?

Gene

On 8/13/2022 5:23 PM, Marie Nelson wrote:

I was giving Narrator a try while using Outlook. It works quite well while going through and reading the messages I have received. However, when I tried creating a new message, all was fine until I typed part of the message in the body of the email. I was not able to navigate back to read what I had typed and even when I unloaded Narrator and loaded Jaws, there seemed to be no text in the body of the message?

Any suggestions welcome.

And by the way, it worked very well in Word except during the say-all when I could not stop it from speaking any grammatical errors within the document. In addition I think the Microsoft David Desktop is much more responsive and clearer in pronounciation.

Thanks, Marie

 

 

 

 



Angelo Sonnesso
 

Narrator does have a review mode.

When you press the spacebar it will say scan on.

I have used it with Chrome.

It works well with program installers.

 

 

 

73 N2DYN Angelo

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2022 2:35 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Narrator

 

That's what I heard awhile ago but I haven't played with it enough to verify that.  I can say that I've tried it with two or three browsers and, as I recall, it works with Edge, not Firefox nor Brave.

It also doesn't work with Thunderbird.

I'm not saying it doesn't work with various third party programs but I doubt it works with a lot.

Also, I don't think it has a virtual mouse nor the equivalent of object navigation.  If those things aren't true, I'd be curious to know.

Gene

On 8/14/2022 1:28 AM, Monte Single wrote:

Hi Gene,

 

Somewhere, I got the impression that narrator worked well with micro soft programs such as Edge, office, and the windows operating system in general.

I thought its major failure was in working with 3rd party apps.

I  have no  personal experience to support this.

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: August 13, 2022 11:23 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Narrator

 

I don't see much need for a Narrator list unless you want to discuss problems with Narrator and ways you want to tell Microsoft to improve it.  It doesn't work with too many programs.

Gene

On 8/13/2022 11:06 PM, heather albright wrote:

Hay just wondering, has anyone started a narrator list? I was asked if there was one like we have a jaws/NVDA lists out there?  Even Microsoft accessibility asks me why  there is not a list out there, I told them not that many people use narrator as their primary screen reader. I would use narrator if they had a list to discuss it like jaws and NVDA.

 Cheers Heather

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Marie Nelson
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2022 6:09 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Narrator

 

It is called Desktop David and is clearer and more responsive than the regular MS David. I jus saw it as an option when selecting a narrator voice in Windows settings.

 

Marie

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2022 4:01 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Narrator

 

Microsoft David is better and clearer than what?

Gene

On 8/13/2022 5:23 PM, Marie Nelson wrote:

I was giving Narrator a try while using Outlook. It works quite well while going through and reading the messages I have received. However, when I tried creating a new message, all was fine until I typed part of the message in the body of the email. I was not able to navigate back to read what I had typed and even when I unloaded Narrator and loaded Jaws, there seemed to be no text in the body of the message?

Any suggestions welcome.

And by the way, it worked very well in Word except during the say-all when I could not stop it from speaking any grammatical errors within the document. In addition I think the Microsoft David Desktop is much more responsive and clearer in pronounciation.

Thanks, Marie

 

 

 

 

 


Marie Nelson
 

I have no desire to use the One core voices in all situations and was merely giving my opinion on the difference. I am basically a Jaws user and would not trade Eloquence for any voice synthesizer I have found. It is more responsive at faster rates than most if not all.

I like to stay somewhat proficient with both Narrator and NVDA for those times when one screen reader may work better than the others.

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of GeneI like to stay somewhat proficient with both Narrator and NVDA as there are times when one screen reader works better than others.
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2022 4:45 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Narrator

 

I played with it.  I don't think it is more responsive.  The voice is equalized differently and the actual sound of the voice is more clear but I don't think speech is any more clear.

Also, when I had it read, it ppaused for ridiculously long times at punctuation marks.  Perhaps that can be changed but on my machine, that's what it did.

I also ran Microsoft David using NVDA and, though I'd have to compare further, my initial impression without doing an A B test between screen-readers is that in NVDA the available Microsoft David voice is equalized differently than in Narrator, thus making Microsoft Dave in NVDA much more equivalent sounding to Microsoft Desktop Dave in Narrator.

You should be able to use One Core voices in JAWS also, if that is your other screen-reader.  I haven't checked to see if JAWS will use the One Core Voices NVDA does, but there are SAPI5 versions of One Core voices in Windows 10 and JAWS should be able to use them since it works with SAPI 5 voices.

If your goal is to use One Core Voices with whatever screen-reader you use, you can use them with the screen-reader you have been using unless it doesn't support SAPI 5 voices, which is doubtful.

Narrator is too limited to be a general use screen-reader, though it does much more than it used to.

Gene

On 8/13/2022 6:09 PM, Marie Nelson wrote:

It is called Desktop David and is clearer and more responsive than the regular MS David. I jus saw it as an option when selecting a narrator voice in Windows settings.

 

Marie

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2022 4:01 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Narrator

 

Microsoft David is better and clearer than what?

Gene

On 8/13/2022 5:23 PM, Marie Nelson wrote:

I was giving Narrator a try while using Outlook. It works quite well while going through and reading the messages I have received. However, when I tried creating a new message, all was fine until I typed part of the message in the body of the email. I was not able to navigate back to read what I had typed and even when I unloaded Narrator and loaded Jaws, there seemed to be no text in the body of the message?

Any suggestions welcome.

And by the way, it worked very well in Word except during the say-all when I could not stop it from speaking any grammatical errors within the document. In addition I think the Microsoft David Desktop is much more responsive and clearer in pronounciation.

Thanks, Marie

 

 

 


Gene
 

I didn't know a lot about scan mode.  I just read about it and I can't tell if it is as capable as what JAWS calls the touch cursor and the rough equivalent in NVDA, object navigation.

I don't use Windows apps to any extent that may require object navigation or the touch cursor to get to certain areas so I can't evaluate it.  It sounds to me as though it can do some things the JAWS cursor can do and screen review in NVDA such as read areas where there is no cursor such as dialogs. 

So I will say that I was wrong about there not being something that is in some ways similar, though I don't think it is the same as the virtual mouse.  That may not matter much.

Gene

On 8/14/2022 7:15 AM, Angelo Sonnesso wrote:

Narrator does have a review mode.

When you press the spacebar it will say scan on.

I have used it with Chrome.

It works well with program installers.

 

 

 

73 N2DYN Angelo

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2022 2:35 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Narrator

 

That's what I heard awhile ago but I haven't played with it enough to verify that.  I can say that I've tried it with two or three browsers and, as I recall, it works with Edge, not Firefox nor Brave.

It also doesn't work with Thunderbird.

I'm not saying it doesn't work with various third party programs but I doubt it works with a lot.

Also, I don't think it has a virtual mouse nor the equivalent of object navigation.  If those things aren't true, I'd be curious to know.

Gene

On 8/14/2022 1:28 AM, Monte Single wrote:

Hi Gene,

 

Somewhere, I got the impression that narrator worked well with micro soft programs such as Edge, office, and the windows operating system in general.

I thought its major failure was in working with 3rd party apps.

I  have no  personal experience to support this.

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: August 13, 2022 11:23 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Narrator

 

I don't see much need for a Narrator list unless you want to discuss problems with Narrator and ways you want to tell Microsoft to improve it.  It doesn't work with too many programs.

Gene

On 8/13/2022 11:06 PM, heather albright wrote:

Hay just wondering, has anyone started a narrator list? I was asked if there was one like we have a jaws/NVDA lists out there?  Even Microsoft accessibility asks me why  there is not a list out there, I told them not that many people use narrator as their primary screen reader. I would use narrator if they had a list to discuss it like jaws and NVDA.

 Cheers Heather

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Marie Nelson
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2022 6:09 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Narrator

 

It is called Desktop David and is clearer and more responsive than the regular MS David. I jus saw it as an option when selecting a narrator voice in Windows settings.

 

Marie

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2022 4:01 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Narrator

 

Microsoft David is better and clearer than what?

Gene

On 8/13/2022 5:23 PM, Marie Nelson wrote:

I was giving Narrator a try while using Outlook. It works quite well while going through and reading the messages I have received. However, when I tried creating a new message, all was fine until I typed part of the message in the body of the email. I was not able to navigate back to read what I had typed and even when I unloaded Narrator and loaded Jaws, there seemed to be no text in the body of the message?

Any suggestions welcome.

And by the way, it worked very well in Word except during the say-all when I could not stop it from speaking any grammatical errors within the document. In addition I think the Microsoft David Desktop is much more responsive and clearer in pronounciation.

Thanks, Marie

 

 

 

 

 



Gene
 

I would rather use a JAWS demo instead of Narrator because Narrator doesn't work with some, perhaps many, nonMicrosoft applications.

Gene

On 8/14/2022 7:55 AM, Marie Nelson wrote:

I have no desire to use the One core voices in all situations and was merely giving my opinion on the difference. I am basically a Jaws user and would not trade Eloquence for any voice synthesizer I have found. It is more responsive at faster rates than most if not all.

I like to stay somewhat proficient with both Narrator and NVDA for those times when one screen reader may work better than the others.

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of GeneI like to stay somewhat proficient with both Narrator and NVDA as there are times when one screen reader works better than others.
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2022 4:45 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Narrator

 

I played with it.  I don't think it is more responsive.  The voice is equalized differently and the actual sound of the voice is more clear but I don't think speech is any more clear.

Also, when I had it read, it ppaused for ridiculously long times at punctuation marks.  Perhaps that can be changed but on my machine, that's what it did.

I also ran Microsoft David using NVDA and, though I'd have to compare further, my initial impression without doing an A B test between screen-readers is that in NVDA the available Microsoft David voice is equalized differently than in Narrator, thus making Microsoft Dave in NVDA much more equivalent sounding to Microsoft Desktop Dave in Narrator.

You should be able to use One Core voices in JAWS also, if that is your other screen-reader.  I haven't checked to see if JAWS will use the One Core Voices NVDA does, but there are SAPI5 versions of One Core voices in Windows 10 and JAWS should be able to use them since it works with SAPI 5 voices.

If your goal is to use One Core Voices with whatever screen-reader you use, you can use them with the screen-reader you have been using unless it doesn't support SAPI 5 voices, which is doubtful.

Narrator is too limited to be a general use screen-reader, though it does much more than it used to.

Gene

On 8/13/2022 6:09 PM, Marie Nelson wrote:

It is called Desktop David and is clearer and more responsive than the regular MS David. I jus saw it as an option when selecting a narrator voice in Windows settings.

 

Marie

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2022 4:01 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Narrator

 

Microsoft David is better and clearer than what?

Gene

On 8/13/2022 5:23 PM, Marie Nelson wrote:

I was giving Narrator a try while using Outlook. It works quite well while going through and reading the messages I have received. However, when I tried creating a new message, all was fine until I typed part of the message in the body of the email. I was not able to navigate back to read what I had typed and even when I unloaded Narrator and loaded Jaws, there seemed to be no text in the body of the message?

Any suggestions welcome.

And by the way, it worked very well in Word except during the say-all when I could not stop it from speaking any grammatical errors within the document. In addition I think the Microsoft David Desktop is much more responsive and clearer in pronounciation.

Thanks, Marie

 

 

 



Gene
 

I can't generalize from my single computer, and others would have to discuss their experiences but I've been playing with scan mode and I find it very unsatisfactory as currently implemented.  I don't know if Windows 11 has a newer version of Narrator but here is what I've found using Windows 10.  Others may have different experiences in Windows 10.

I opened Notepad, wrote a bit of text, then I used alt f4 to cause the do you want to save dialog to open.
I turned scan mode on and moved to the text.  I tried to select. it.  I received the message could not select.
If that is the general behavior in dialogues, than an important expected function is not present, that of selecting text and being able to copy it to the clipboard, such as error messages.

I opened Edge, opened a web page and tried certain things with scan on and off. 

read to end didn't work as expected, stopping after certain structures and repeatedly.  I'm not sure when, I didn't study it much. 
I was unable to select with Edge on the web page I was working with.  I didn't get a could not select message, I just couldn't move using select commands and that may be the reason I couldn't select.
I was able to move and select with Edge off but on my machine, this is a hodgepodge where you need Edge on to do certain things, then off to do others.

Aside from selecting, if I want to read an article using read to end, it appears, and I'd have to test this further but it appears that I would have to do things like have Scan on to move by heading and off to use read to end as expected.

Scan appears to have real problems and limitations at this time.

Gene

On 8/14/2022 8:53 AM, Gene wrote:
I would rather use a JAWS demo instead of Narrator because Narrator doesn't work with some, perhaps many, nonMicrosoft applications.

Gene

On 8/14/2022 7:55 AM, Marie Nelson wrote:

I have no desire to use the One core voices in all situations and was merely giving my opinion on the difference. I am basically a Jaws user and would not trade Eloquence for any voice synthesizer I have found. It is more responsive at faster rates than most if not all.

I like to stay somewhat proficient with both Narrator and NVDA for those times when one screen reader may work better than the others.

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of GeneI like to stay somewhat proficient with both Narrator and NVDA as there are times when one screen reader works better than others.
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2022 4:45 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Narrator

 

I played with it.  I don't think it is more responsive.  The voice is equalized differently and the actual sound of the voice is more clear but I don't think speech is any more clear.

Also, when I had it read, it ppaused for ridiculously long times at punctuation marks.  Perhaps that can be changed but on my machine, that's what it did.

I also ran Microsoft David using NVDA and, though I'd have to compare further, my initial impression without doing an A B test between screen-readers is that in NVDA the available Microsoft David voice is equalized differently than in Narrator, thus making Microsoft Dave in NVDA much more equivalent sounding to Microsoft Desktop Dave in Narrator.

You should be able to use One Core voices in JAWS also, if that is your other screen-reader.  I haven't checked to see if JAWS will use the One Core Voices NVDA does, but there are SAPI5 versions of One Core voices in Windows 10 and JAWS should be able to use them since it works with SAPI 5 voices.

If your goal is to use One Core Voices with whatever screen-reader you use, you can use them with the screen-reader you have been using unless it doesn't support SAPI 5 voices, which is doubtful.

Narrator is too limited to be a general use screen-reader, though it does much more than it used to.

Gene

On 8/13/2022 6:09 PM, Marie Nelson wrote:

It is called Desktop David and is clearer and more responsive than the regular MS David. I jus saw it as an option when selecting a narrator voice in Windows settings.

 

Marie

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2022 4:01 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Narrator

 

Microsoft David is better and clearer than what?

Gene

On 8/13/2022 5:23 PM, Marie Nelson wrote:

I was giving Narrator a try while using Outlook. It works quite well while going through and reading the messages I have received. However, when I tried creating a new message, all was fine until I typed part of the message in the body of the email. I was not able to navigate back to read what I had typed and even when I unloaded Narrator and loaded Jaws, there seemed to be no text in the body of the message?

Any suggestions welcome.

And by the way, it worked very well in Word except during the say-all when I could not stop it from speaking any grammatical errors within the document. In addition I think the Microsoft David Desktop is much more responsive and clearer in pronounciation.

Thanks, Marie

 

 

 




Gene
 

I just tested read to end in an article.  I was wrong about how read to end would work in an article with Scan on and off.  I was guessing before based on how it worked on a nonarticle web page.  read to end stops on my machine, evidently between paragraphs whether Scan is on or off.

I'll be very interested in what others have to say.

This changes what I said about having Scan work as a hodgepodge, being on for some things and off for others.  Since read to end on my machine doesn't work properly either way, it may be able to be left on in general.

But as I said, If I want to select on a web page, on my machine it must be off.

Also, at least at this point on my machine, Scan isn't smart enough to turn off when working in the Edge menu, and must be manually turned off.

If I open settings using alt f and scan is on, it stays on.  So alt f followed by s to open settings doesn't work since scan mode is similar to the virtual PC cursor.  Scan should automatically turn off when opening the Edge menu but it doesn't.  That means that letter shortcuts such as s to open settings won't work unless you turn it off.

At this point, unless others report very different experiences with Edge, I don't consider it ready for general use.  There may be certain things it does better than NVDA and JAWS.  I'm not assuming there aren't, but as I said, I don't think it is ready for general use unless others have very different experiences.

Gene

On 8/14/2022 9:17 AM, Gene wrote:
I can't generalize from my single computer, and others would have to discuss their experiences but I've been playing with scan mode and I find it very unsatisfactory as currently implemented.  I don't know if Windows 11 has a newer version of Narrator but here is what I've found using Windows 10.  Others may have different experiences in Windows 10.

I opened Notepad, wrote a bit of text, then I used alt f4 to cause the do you want to save dialog to open.
I turned scan mode on and moved to the text.  I tried to select. it.  I received the message could not select.
If that is the general behavior in dialogues, than an important expected function is not present, that of selecting text and being able to copy it to the clipboard, such as error messages.

I opened Edge, opened a web page and tried certain things with scan on and off. 

read to end didn't work as expected, stopping after certain structures and repeatedly.  I'm not sure when, I didn't study it much. 
I was unable to select with Edge on the web page I was working with.  I didn't get a could not select message, I just couldn't move using select commands and that may be the reason I couldn't select.
I was able to move and select with Edge off but on my machine, this is a hodgepodge where you need Edge on to do certain things, then off to do others.

Aside from selecting, if I want to read an article using read to end, it appears, and I'd have to test this further but it appears that I would have to do things like have Scan on to move by heading and off to use read to end as expected.

Scan appears to have real problems and limitations at this time.

Gene

On 8/14/2022 8:53 AM, Gene wrote:
I would rather use a JAWS demo instead of Narrator because Narrator doesn't work with some, perhaps many, nonMicrosoft applications.

Gene

On 8/14/2022 7:55 AM, Marie Nelson wrote:

I have no desire to use the One core voices in all situations and was merely giving my opinion on the difference. I am basically a Jaws user and would not trade Eloquence for any voice synthesizer I have found. It is more responsive at faster rates than most if not all.

I like to stay somewhat proficient with both Narrator and NVDA for those times when one screen reader may work better than the others.

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of GeneI like to stay somewhat proficient with both Narrator and NVDA as there are times when one screen reader works better than others.
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2022 4:45 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Narrator

 

I played with it.  I don't think it is more responsive.  The voice is equalized differently and the actual sound of the voice is more clear but I don't think speech is any more clear.

Also, when I had it read, it ppaused for ridiculously long times at punctuation marks.  Perhaps that can be changed but on my machine, that's what it did.

I also ran Microsoft David using NVDA and, though I'd have to compare further, my initial impression without doing an A B test between screen-readers is that in NVDA the available Microsoft David voice is equalized differently than in Narrator, thus making Microsoft Dave in NVDA much more equivalent sounding to Microsoft Desktop Dave in Narrator.

You should be able to use One Core voices in JAWS also, if that is your other screen-reader.  I haven't checked to see if JAWS will use the One Core Voices NVDA does, but there are SAPI5 versions of One Core voices in Windows 10 and JAWS should be able to use them since it works with SAPI 5 voices.

If your goal is to use One Core Voices with whatever screen-reader you use, you can use them with the screen-reader you have been using unless it doesn't support SAPI 5 voices, which is doubtful.

Narrator is too limited to be a general use screen-reader, though it does much more than it used to.

Gene

On 8/13/2022 6:09 PM, Marie Nelson wrote:

It is called Desktop David and is clearer and more responsive than the regular MS David. I jus saw it as an option when selecting a narrator voice in Windows settings.

 

Marie

 

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2022 4:01 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Narrator

 

Microsoft David is better and clearer than what?

Gene

On 8/13/2022 5:23 PM, Marie Nelson wrote:

I was giving Narrator a try while using Outlook. It works quite well while going through and reading the messages I have received. However, when I tried creating a new message, all was fine until I typed part of the message in the body of the email. I was not able to navigate back to read what I had typed and even when I unloaded Narrator and loaded Jaws, there seemed to be no text in the body of the message?

Any suggestions welcome.

And by the way, it worked very well in Word except during the say-all when I could not stop it from speaking any grammatical errors within the document. In addition I think the Microsoft David Desktop is much more responsive and clearer in pronounciation.

Thanks, Marie