Topics

Need help to save document in Microsoft Word

TerriLynne Pomeroy
 

I have recently downgraded to Windows 10 and am using Office 2016 and JAWS 18. I have no trouble opening a new document in Microsoft Word, but can’t figure out how to save it. Any help would be appreciated.

TerriLynne

chris judge
 

Hi. I'm assuming you mean, upgraded to windows 10? What happens when you attempt to save the document using control S?

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of TerriLynne Pomeroy
Sent: January 13, 2020 10:58 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Need help to save document in Microsoft Word

I have recently downgraded to Windows 10 and am using Office 2016 and JAWS 18. I have no trouble opening a new document in Microsoft Word, but can’t figure out how to save it. Any help would be appreciated.

TerriLynne

Ann Parsons
 

Hi all,

Word in Windows 10, incidently not the same things at all, e.g. you can run Office2013 or Office365 on Windows10. The save commands are the same in Word as they have been for the past twenty years. ctrl-s saves a document. f12 takes you to the save-as dialog as it always did. You can find these options by using alt-f which is the backstage menu.

Ann P.

--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
EMAIL: akp@...
Author of The Demmies: http://www.dldbooks.com/annparsons/
Portal Tutoring web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."

TerriLynne Pomeroy
 

Well, the control s does not work. It is what I have always used in the
past. But the ctrl f12, which I have never used, did work.
And my version of office says 2016.
TerriLynne

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ann
Parsons
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 12:13 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Need help to save document in Microsoft Word

Hi all,

Word in Windows 10, incidently not the same things at all, e.g. you can
run Office2013 or Office365 on Windows10. The save commands are the
same in Word as they have been for the past twenty years. ctrl-s saves a
document. f12 takes you to the save-as dialog as it always did. You can
find these options by using alt-f which is the backstage menu.

Ann P.

--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
EMAIL: akp@...
Author of The Demmies: http://www.dldbooks.com/annparsons/
Portal Tutoring web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."

TerriLynne Pomeroy
 

And, BTW, thanks. *smile*

TerriLynne

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ann
Parsons
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 12:13 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Need help to save document in Microsoft Word

Hi all,

Word in Windows 10, incidently not the same things at all, e.g. you can
run Office2013 or Office365 on Windows10. The save commands are the
same in Word as they have been for the past twenty years. ctrl-s saves a
document. f12 takes you to the save-as dialog as it always did. You can
find these options by using alt-f which is the backstage menu.

Ann P.

--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
EMAIL: akp@...
Author of The Demmies: http://www.dldbooks.com/annparsons/
Portal Tutoring web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."

TerriLynne Pomeroy
 

I definitely mean downgraded. I really hate Windows 10 and would happily go back to something else.
TerriLynne

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of chris judge
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 9:24 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Need help to save document in Microsoft Word

Hi. I'm assuming you mean, upgraded to windows 10? What happens when you attempt to save the document using control S?

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of TerriLynne Pomeroy
Sent: January 13, 2020 10:58 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Need help to save document in Microsoft Word

I have recently downgraded to Windows 10 and am using Office 2016 and JAWS 18. I have no trouble opening a new document in Microsoft Word, but can’t figure out how to save it. Any help would be appreciated.

TerriLynne

Steve Matzura
 

Downgraded?


It's on the File menu. If you've made changes to the document, the "Save" option will not be grayed out; otherwise, use "Save As."


HTH

On 1/13/2020 9:57 AM, TerriLynne Pomeroy wrote:
I have recently downgraded to Windows 10 and am using Office 2016 and JAWS 18. I have no trouble opening a new document in Microsoft Word, but can’t figure out how to save it. Any help would be appreciated.

TerriLynne

Gene
 

Why do you hate it?  If it is a matter of doing things, you may find, by discussing such topics, that you find other ways you like more, perhaps being able to more or less duplicate the Windows 7 methods by using a utility that restores that interface where it has been changed.  But if you use such utilities, make sure no functionality you want is impaired or lost.  Whenever I see such discussions, that is my first question.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 1:33 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Need help to save document in Microsoft Word

I definitely mean downgraded. I really hate Windows 10 and would happily go back to something else.
TerriLynne

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of chris judge
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 9:24 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Need help to save document in Microsoft Word

Hi. I'm assuming you mean, upgraded to windows 10? What happens when you attempt to save the document using control S?

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of TerriLynne Pomeroy
Sent: January 13, 2020 10:58 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Need help to save document in Microsoft Word

                I have recently downgraded to Windows 10 and am using Office 2016 and JAWS 18. I have no trouble opening a new document in Microsoft Word, but can’t figure out how to save it. Any help would be appreciated.

TerriLynne











Kerryn Gunness
 


i use abby 12
i have problems with navigating the menu, nvda does not read the menu options
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 3:46 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Need help to save document in Microsoft Word

Why do you hate it?  If it is a matter of doing things, you may find, by discussing such topics, that you find other ways you like more, perhaps being able to more or less duplicate the Windows 7 methods by using a utility that restores that interface where it has been changed.  But if you use such utilities, make sure no functionality you want is impaired or lost.  Whenever I see such discussions, that is my first question.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 1:33 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Need help to save document in Microsoft Word

I definitely mean downgraded. I really hate Windows 10 and would happily go back to something else.
TerriLynne

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of chris judge
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 9:24 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Need help to save document in Microsoft Word

Hi. I'm assuming you mean, upgraded to windows 10? What happens when you attempt to save the document using control S?

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of TerriLynne Pomeroy
Sent: January 13, 2020 10:58 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Need help to save document in Microsoft Word

                I have recently downgraded to Windows 10 and am using Office 2016 and JAWS 18. I have no trouble opening a new document in Microsoft Word, but can’t figure out how to save it. Any help would be appreciated.

TerriLynne











chris judge
 

Smile ok.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of TerriLynne Pomeroy
Sent: January 13, 2020 3:34 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Need help to save document in Microsoft Word

I definitely mean downgraded. I really hate Windows 10 and would happily go back to something else.
TerriLynne

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of chris judge
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 9:24 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Need help to save document in Microsoft Word

Hi. I'm assuming you mean, upgraded to windows 10? What happens when you attempt to save the document using control S?

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of TerriLynne Pomeroy
Sent: January 13, 2020 10:58 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Need help to save document in Microsoft Word

I have recently downgraded to Windows 10 and am using Office 2016 and JAWS 18. I have no trouble opening a new document in Microsoft Word, but can’t figure out how to save it. Any help would be appreciated.

TerriLynne

Gene
 

The message was to TerriLynne, who said she hates Windows 10.  Usually, though not alwa7ys, the reply is above the message being replied to.
 
As far as the menus are concerned, using a JAWS demo to get things set up might work around the problem.  Once you get things set up, settings should be remembered.
 
Gene 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Need help to save document in Microsoft Word

i use abby 12
i have problems with navigating the menu, nvda does not read the menu options
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 3:46 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Need help to save document in Microsoft Word

Why do you hate it?  If it is a matter of doing things, you may find, by discussing such topics, that you find other ways you like more, perhaps being able to more or less duplicate the Windows 7 methods by using a utility that restores that interface where it has been changed.  But if you use such utilities, make sure no functionality you want is impaired or lost.  Whenever I see such discussions, that is my first question.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 1:33 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Need help to save document in Microsoft Word

I definitely mean downgraded. I really hate Windows 10 and would happily go back to something else.
TerriLynne

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of chris judge
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 9:24 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Need help to save document in Microsoft Word

Hi. I'm assuming you mean, upgraded to windows 10? What happens when you attempt to save the document using control S?

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of TerriLynne Pomeroy
Sent: January 13, 2020 10:58 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Need help to save document in Microsoft Word

                I have recently downgraded to Windows 10 and am using Office 2016 and JAWS 18. I have no trouble opening a new document in Microsoft Word, but can’t figure out how to save it. Any help would be appreciated.

TerriLynne











TerriLynne Pomeroy
 

Hi Gene,

Unfortunately, I had a hard drive go south and had to move to windows 10 and office 2016. So I am double frustrated.

 

Part of the problem may be Microsoft Office 2016. I hate the changes to Outlook. I looked for an older version, but was told that Microsoft has been scouring the web to get rid of older versions, to force upgrades. In addition, I couldn’t email this group directly. I had to reply to another message and change the message line. Which probably means some are not getting this message because they muted the thread. 😊 I really don’t know why the reply worked and sending the message didn’t, but it is just one more frustration.

 

I haven’t really learned to use ribbons, so Microsoft word frustrates me. Luckily, the f12 save is pretty easy, if I can just re form my habit.

 

And, in Windows 10, things just get randomly deleted. I was renaming an NLS book, and suddenly the edit field was gone. I went back to my list of books, and the book wasn’t there. And it isn’t in the recycle bin.

 

Windows also randomly removes shortcuts from my desktop. The most recent shortcut to be removed was the one to Outlook. I could still go to the search box and type in Outlook, and enter on it there, but along with the program Outlook, up came all of my e-mail messages with the outlook word in them. And the order was random. I had to search the list for the program.

 

I realize that it’s all doable, fixable, get used toable, but it seems that nothing runs smoothly anymore.

 

I will just keep plugging along, but I, at least right now, really dislike Windows 10.

 

TerriLynne

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 12:47 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Need help to save document in Microsoft Word

 

Why do you hate it?  If it is a matter of doing things, you may find, by discussing such topics, that you find other ways you like more, perhaps being able to more or less duplicate the Windows 7 methods by using a utility that restores that interface where it has been changed.  But if you use such utilities, make sure no functionality you want is impaired or lost.  Whenever I see such discussions, that is my first question.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 1:33 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Need help to save document in Microsoft Word

 

I definitely mean downgraded. I really hate Windows 10 and would happily go back to something else.
TerriLynne

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of chris judge
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 9:24 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Need help to save document in Microsoft Word

Hi. I'm assuming you mean, upgraded to windows 10? What happens when you attempt to save the document using control S?

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of TerriLynne Pomeroy
Sent: January 13, 2020 10:58 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Need help to save document in Microsoft Word

                I have recently downgraded to Windows 10 and am using Office 2016 and JAWS 18. I have no trouble opening a new document in Microsoft Word, but can’t figure out how to save it. Any help would be appreciated.

TerriLynne










Gene
 

Those with Windows 10 may be able to address some or many of these problems.  I don't have Windows 10 but as you will see from my comments, I'm not at all sure some of your problems are Windows 10 problems.  I hope you find the following helpful.
 
Such things as files disappearing aren't Windows 10 expected behaviors.  Files and perhaps shortcuts disappearing may be the result of something being wrong with your computer hardware itself.  The one time I saw odd things such as files disappear occur a number of times, it was found, when a tech looked at the machine of the person I was working with, that something was wrong, I don't remember what.  The person wasn't using Windows 10, they were using either XP or Windows 7.  All these odd problems stopped when a new computer was purchased and used.  I'm not assuming that purchasing a new computer will be necessary if there is a problem.  But it might just be better to get one from Computers For the Blind.  That may be cheaper than having a tech look at the computer.  And there is a good, I think a very good, chance that it will stop your odd problems.  But to discuss that better, knowing things such as the age of your computer might be useful.  But I wouldn't be surprised if having your computer checked might cost fifty dollars, maybe more.  I haven't had it done for many years and I don't know current prices.  I think a desktop from Computers for the Blind costs about $100.
 
But I'm not a tech and I don't know how likely it would be that your problem might be easily solved by cleaning memory contacts.  I would expect that if you were having memory problems, though, you would have odd things like crashes and improper bootups.
As far as search, if, as in any search, something produces too many results, make it more specific.  I'm not sure how you would in this case.  Try Microsoft Outlook.  It may then be the first result and you may have to use read current line or down arrow and up arrow once to see it.
 
Regarding ribbons, if they are taught properly, they shouldn't be particularly difficult to learn for a lot or for most people.  They may take some time and practice to get used to but a lot of the fear of ribbons is the result of people not learning them properly and then telling others, who tell others, and so on.
 
Below my signature is my tutorial on ribbons.  It isn't long.  If you work with it, you will likely find ribbons very understandable.
 
Gene
 
I'll provide a brief tutorial based on what I wrote years ago of how to work with ribbons. 
 
I've added a little to it here.
 
I don't know how the organization of Windows has changed in Windows 10 but this description should allow you to look through the Windows ribbons, or any other ribbons, and see how things are organized. 
 
First, I'll discuss a structure found in later versions of Windows that you need to know about-- the split button. 
One thing you will see as you look around ribbons and in other places in Windows are split buttons. A split button often allows you to see more options than just the default action.  Let's take an example. 
Let's say you come across a split button that says shut down Windows.  If you press enter on that button, Windows will shut down.  That is the default action.  Split buttons often show more options if you either right arrow while on the button or down arrow.  As an example, if you are on the shut down split button, you can right arrow and a list of options will open.  the items in the list include sleep, hibernate, restart, and others.  You up or down arrow through the list or use the short cut commands you hear announced as you move through the list.  the letter shortcuts often take actions without pressing enter so be careful when using them, just as you are in menus. 
 
So, let's review.  You find a split button that says shut down.  If you press enter, the computer will shut down. If you right arrow, other options may be displayed.  Or if you down arrow, other options may be displayed.  A split button won't work with both methods.  One method, either right arrowing or down arrowing will do so if it can be done with the button.  Try both methods if you don't know which one might work.  If you are on a tool bar which extends across the screen from left to right, down arrowing will open additional options.  If you think about this, it makes sense.  If you are in a menu, down arrowing will move you to the next item in the menu.  So you right arrow on the split button to cause it to display more options.  In a tool bar that extends across the screen from left to right, right arrowing will move you to the next item in the tool bar.  So you down arrow when on the split button to cause it to display more options.  But some tool bars run up and down the screen, as menus do.  And at times, you may not be sure which way a structure extends on screen.  So, as I said, if you are not sure or don't know, try both methods of causing the split button to display more options.  Often, one of them will work. If you open the options a split button offers and don't want to work with them, arrow in the opposite direction to move out of them.  For example, if you right arrowed to open more options, left arrow. 
Some split buttons don't do anything when you right arrow or down arrow.  In that case, open them with alt down arrow.  Then tab through the additional options.  I've almost never worked in this way with split buttons but if you want to close a split button, try alt up arrow if you've used alt down arrow to open it.
 
Now, to ribbons themselves.
 
Regarding ribbons, much of the complaining about them is not warranted if you understand how they work and how to use short cut commands effectively and efficiently.  and I would strongly recommend against using the JAWS virtual menus, no matter what the JAWS training material says about ribbons being difficult to use.  the training material is just plain wrong and using virtual menus, you will be unnecessarily dependent on one screen-reader.  There are other disadvantages to using them which I won't go into here.
 
Try looking at ribbons and doing what is described below in wordpad.  Everyone with Windows 7 has Wordpad on their machine.  Wordpad provides a good environment to look at and practice working with ribbons.  
 
The essence of working with ribbons is this:
Press alt to move to the upper ribbon.
You will probably be on an item that says home tab. Items on the upper ribbon are announced as tabs such as home tab, view tab, etc. 
To see what ribbons are available, right or left arrow repeatedly to move through the ribbons.  Move in one
direction to move through all of them, just as you would to move through all the menus.
 
For this demonstration, just so we are all doing the same thing, move with the right arrow. When you get back to where you started, you can keep right arrowing to move through the items again, if you wish.  You can move through all the items as many times as you want. Or you can move with the left arrow whenever you want to move in the opposite direction.  
 
Stop on view.  Then start tabbing.  You will move through all items in what is called the lower ribbon that are in the view ribbon. 
 
In other words you tab to see the items in a ribbon once you move to it.  Tab moves you forward through the items, shift tab moves you backword.
So tab and shift tab are used instead of up and down arrow. 
 
Many items in the lower ribbon are buttons.  Use either the space bar or enter to activate the button. You may find a button that opens a menu and if you press enter or the space bar, you will then be in a menu.
 
Each time you move to an item, you will hear the short cut command to work with that item. 
But JAWS has a bug and you often won't.  To hear the short cut, use the command JAWS key tab.  If you are using the default JAWS key, it is either insert.
 
Try tabbing to an item in a Wordpad ribbon and using the command insert tab.  You will hear some extraneous information.  The last thing you will hear is the short cut sequence.  You can repeat the information by repeating the command as often as you want.
 
Let's look at an item which is usually called the application menu.  Return to the main program window in wordpad by closing the ribbons.  You can either press escape repeatedly, if necessary, or you can press alt once.  Now, open the ribbons again with alt. 
Start right arrowing until you get to the application menu.
You will hear application menu and then something like button drop down grid.  Never mind drop down grid.  It's a description you don't have to worry about.  The important things are that you are on a button and at the application menu.  Press enter or the space bar to activate the button.  Activating the button opens the menu.  Start down arrowing. you will hear all the short cut commands necessary to open an item or take an action.  When you got to the menu item, you heard alt f.  When you open the menu and move through it, you will hear all the letters announced.  for example, if you down arrow to save as, you will hear alt f a.  that means that, when you are in the main program window, you open the menu as you always did, alt f, then type a.  Alt f opens the menau and a then opens save as.  Ribbon programs have one menu and you should look through it.  Many important and common commands and interfaces such as options may be there.  By options, I mean the kind of options interface you used to find in the tools menu.
 
Now the we have seen the menu, let's look at the ribbons structure some more.
To review, and add more information, as you have seen, you can move to the ribbon interface with alt.  Then right and left arrow, just as you would move from menu to menu. 
You can also move to a ribbon using alt and a letter.  So, alt h takes you to the home ribbon.  Alt v takes you to the view ribbon, etc.  Once you are on the ribbon you want to work with, tab to move forward through the items in a ribbon.  Shift tab to move back through the items.  So tab and shift tab are used instead of up and down arrow.
Ribbons are divided into categories which you will hear announced as you tab.  for example, in an e-mail program, a ribbon may have a category named respond.  You may hear this announced as respond tool bar.  As you tab, you will hear commands such as reply and forward in the respond category.  When you hear a category announced, don't tab until you hear everything spoken.  You will miss the first command in the category if you do.  I'm talking about working with an unfamiliar ribbon. 
there are often many more commands and items in a ribbon than in a menu.  So memorize command sequences for items you know you will use regularly. 
As I said, there are different categories in ribbons to help organize items.  You can quickly jump from category to category in a ribbon to help you see if there is a category you want to look through. 
Move to a ribbon in Wordpad.  For example, alt h for hhome or alt v for view.
Then repeatedly issue the command control right arrow to move forward from category to category and control left arrow to move back.  When you get to a category you want to hear the items in, start tabbing.  Of course, you can shift tab to move back. 
 
Open a ribbon in Wordpad and tab through it to see how it is organized by moving through it. 
Then use control right arrow to move by category and tab to see what is in a category. 
 
Commands such as control o, control n, control s, control r, etc. are mostly retained in programs
that use ribbons, though you won't hear them announced. If you don't already know them, you'll have to find them in ways such as by looking at a list of keyboard commands for the program.  Such lists are often available in the help for the program. If you already know the commands from having used an older version of the program, most or perhaps even all of the commands you know will work.  

TerriLynne Pomeroy
 

Thanks, Gene. I will check out your tutorial.

 

As to hardware, and this does not mean there is not a hardware problem, the computer is brand new.

 

Thanks,

 

TerriLynne

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 5:51 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Need help to save document in Microsoft Word

 

Those with Windows 10 may be able to address some or many of these problems.  I don't have Windows 10 but as you will see from my comments, I'm not at all sure some of your problems are Windows 10 problems.  I hope you find the following helpful.

 

Such things as files disappearing aren't Windows 10 expected behaviors.  Files and perhaps shortcuts disappearing may be the result of something being wrong with your computer hardware itself.  The one time I saw odd things such as files disappear occur a number of times, it was found, when a tech looked at the machine of the person I was working with, that something was wrong, I don't remember what.  The person wasn't using Windows 10, they were using either XP or Windows 7.  All these odd problems stopped when a new computer was purchased and used.  I'm not assuming that purchasing a new computer will be necessary if there is a problem.  But it might just be better to get one from Computers For the Blind.  That may be cheaper than having a tech look at the computer.  And there is a good, I think a very good, chance that it will stop your odd problems.  But to discuss that better, knowing things such as the age of your computer might be useful.  But I wouldn't be surprised if having your computer checked might cost fifty dollars, maybe more.  I haven't had it done for many years and I don't know current prices.  I think a desktop from Computers for the Blind costs about $100.

 

But I'm not a tech and I don't know how likely it would be that your problem might be easily solved by cleaning memory contacts.  I would expect that if you were having memory problems, though, you would have odd things like crashes and improper bootups.

As far as search, if, as in any search, something produces too many results, make it more specific.  I'm not sure how you would in this case.  Try Microsoft Outlook.  It may then be the first result and you may have to use read current line or down arrow and up arrow once to see it.

 

Regarding ribbons, if they are taught properly, they shouldn't be particularly difficult to learn for a lot or for most people.  They may take some time and practice to get used to but a lot of the fear of ribbons is the result of people not learning them properly and then telling others, who tell others, and so on.

 

Below my signature is my tutorial on ribbons.  It isn't long.  If you work with it, you will likely find ribbons very understandable.

 

Gene

 

I'll provide a brief tutorial based on what I wrote years ago of how to work with ribbons. 

 

I've added a little to it here.

 

I don't know how the organization of Windows has changed in Windows 10 but this description should allow you to look through the Windows ribbons, or any other ribbons, and see how things are organized. 

 

First, I'll discuss a structure found in later versions of Windows that you need to know about-- the split button. 
One thing you will see as you look around ribbons and in other places in Windows are split buttons. A split button often allows you to see more options than just the default action.  Let's take an example. 
Let's say you come across a split button that says shut down Windows.  If you press enter on that button, Windows will shut down.  That is the default action.  Split buttons often show more options if you either right arrow while on the button or down arrow.  As an example, if you are on the shut down split button, you can right arrow and a list of options will open.  the items in the list include sleep, hibernate, restart, and others.  You up or down arrow through the list or use the short cut commands you hear announced as you move through the list.  the letter shortcuts often take actions without pressing enter so be careful when using them, just as you are in menus. 

 

So, let's review.  You find a split button that says shut down.  If you press enter, the computer will shut down. If you right arrow, other options may be displayed.  Or if you down arrow, other options may be displayed.  A split button won't work with both methods.  One method, either right arrowing or down arrowing will do so if it can be done with the button.  Try both methods if you don't know which one might work.  If you are on a tool bar which extends across the screen from left to right, down arrowing will open additional options.  If you think about this, it makes sense.  If you are in a menu, down arrowing will move you to the next item in the menu.  So you right arrow on the split button to cause it to display more options.  In a tool bar that extends across the screen from left to right, right arrowing will move you to the next item in the tool bar.  So you down arrow when on the split button to cause it to display more options.  But some tool bars run up and down the screen, as menus do.  And at times, you may not be sure which way a structure extends on screen.  So, as I said, if you are not sure or don't know, try both methods of causing the split button to display more options.  Often, one of them will work. If you open the options a split button offers and don't want to work with them, arrow in the opposite direction to move out of them.  For example, if you right arrowed to open more options, left arrow. 
Some split buttons don't do anything when you right arrow or down arrow.  In that case, open them with alt down arrow.  Then tab through the additional options.  I've almost never worked in this way with split buttons but if you want to close a split button, try alt up arrow if you've used alt down arrow to open it.

 

Now, to ribbons themselves.

 

Regarding ribbons, much of the complaining about them is not warranted if you understand how they work and how to use short cut commands effectively and efficiently.  and I would strongly recommend against using the JAWS virtual menus, no matter what the JAWS training material says about ribbons being difficult to use.  the training material is just plain wrong and using virtual menus, you will be unnecessarily dependent on one screen-reader.  There are other disadvantages to using them which I won't go into here.

 

Try looking at ribbons and doing what is described below in wordpad.  Everyone with Windows 7 has Wordpad on their machine.  Wordpad provides a good environment to look at and practice working with ribbons.  

 

The essence of working with ribbons is this:
Press alt to move to the upper ribbon.
You will probably be on an item that says home tab. Items on the upper ribbon are announced as tabs such as home tab, view tab, etc. 
To see what ribbons are available, right or left arrow repeatedly to move through the ribbons.  Move in one
direction to move through all of them, just as you would to move through all the menus.

 

For this demonstration, just so we are all doing the same thing, move with the right arrow. When you get back to where you started, you can keep right arrowing to move through the items again, if you wish.  You can move through all the items as many times as you want. Or you can move with the left arrow whenever you want to move in the opposite direction.  

 

Stop on view.  Then start tabbing.  You will move through all items in what is called the lower ribbon that are in the view ribbon. 

 

In other words you tab to see the items in a ribbon once you move to it.  Tab moves you forward through the items, shift tab moves you backword.
So tab and shift tab are used instead of up and down arrow. 

 

Many items in the lower ribbon are buttons.  Use either the space bar or enter to activate the button. You may find a button that opens a menu and if you press enter or the space bar, you will then be in a menu.

 

Each time you move to an item, you will hear the short cut command to work with that item. 
But JAWS has a bug and you often won't.  To hear the short cut, use the command JAWS key tab.  If you are using the default JAWS key, it is either insert.

 

Try tabbing to an item in a Wordpad ribbon and using the command insert tab.  You will hear some extraneous information.  The last thing you will hear is the short cut sequence.  You can repeat the information by repeating the command as often as you want.

 

Let's look at an item which is usually called the application menu.  Return to the main program window in wordpad by closing the ribbons.  You can either press escape repeatedly, if necessary, or you can press alt once.  Now, open the ribbons again with alt. 
Start right arrowing until you get to the application menu.
You will hear application menu and then something like button drop down grid.  Never mind drop down grid.  It's a description you don't have to worry about.  The important things are that you are on a button and at the application menu.  Press enter or the space bar to activate the button.  Activating the button opens the menu.  Start down arrowing. you will hear all the short cut commands necessary to open an item or take an action.  When you got to the menu item, you heard alt f.  When you open the menu and move through it, you will hear all the letters announced.  for example, if you down arrow to save as, you will hear alt f a.  that means that, when you are in the main program window, you open the menu as you always did, alt f, then type a.  Alt f opens the menau and a then opens save as.  Ribbon programs have one menu and you should look through it.  Many important and common commands and interfaces such as options may be there.  By options, I mean the kind of options interface you used to find in the tools menu.

 

Now the we have seen the menu, let's look at the ribbons structure some more.
To review, and add more information, as you have seen, you can move to the ribbon interface with alt.  Then right and left arrow, just as you would move from menu to menu. 
You can also move to a ribbon using alt and a letter.  So, alt h takes you to the home ribbon.  Alt v takes you to the view ribbon, etc.  Once you are on the ribbon you want to work with, tab to move forward through the items in a ribbon.  Shift tab to move back through the items.  So tab and shift tab are used instead of up and down arrow.
Ribbons are divided into categories which you will hear announced as you tab.  for example, in an e-mail program, a ribbon may have a category named respond.  You may hear this announced as respond tool bar.  As you tab, you will hear commands such as reply and forward in the respond category.  When you hear a category announced, don't tab until you hear everything spoken.  You will miss the first command in the category if you do.  I'm talking about working with an unfamiliar ribbon. 
there are often many more commands and items in a ribbon than in a menu.  So memorize command sequences for items you know you will use regularly. 
As I said, there are different categories in ribbons to help organize items.  You can quickly jump from category to category in a ribbon to help you see if there is a category you want to look through. 
Move to a ribbon in Wordpad.  For example, alt h for hhome or alt v for view.
Then repeatedly issue the command control right arrow to move forward from category to category and control left arrow to move back.  When you get to a category you want to hear the items in, start tabbing.  Of course, you can shift tab to move back. 

 

Open a ribbon in Wordpad and tab through it to see how it is organized by moving through it. 
Then use control right arrow to move by category and tab to see what is in a category. 

 

Commands such as control o, control n, control s, control r, etc. are mostly retained in programs
that use ribbons, though you won't hear them announced. If you don't already know them, you'll have to find them in ways such as by looking at a list of keyboard commands for the program.  Such lists are often available in the help for the program. If you already know the commands from having used an older version of the program, most or perhaps even all of the commands you know will work.  

Gene
 

It should be under warranty.  We'll see what others say but your problems sound as though it should be exchanged or returned. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 6:54 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Need help to save document in Microsoft Word

Thanks, Gene. I will check out your tutorial.

 

As to hardware, and this does not mean there is not a hardware problem, the computer is brand new.

 

Thanks,

 

TerriLynne

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 5:51 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Need help to save document in Microsoft Word

 

Those with Windows 10 may be able to address some or many of these problems.  I don't have Windows 10 but as you will see from my comments, I'm not at all sure some of your problems are Windows 10 problems.  I hope you find the following helpful.

 

Such things as files disappearing aren't Windows 10 expected behaviors.  Files and perhaps shortcuts disappearing may be the result of something being wrong with your computer hardware itself.  The one time I saw odd things such as files disappear occur a number of times, it was found, when a tech looked at the machine of the person I was working with, that something was wrong, I don't remember what.  The person wasn't using Windows 10, they were using either XP or Windows 7.  All these odd problems stopped when a new computer was purchased and used.  I'm not assuming that purchasing a new computer will be necessary if there is a problem.  But it might just be better to get one from Computers For the Blind.  That may be cheaper than having a tech look at the computer.  And there is a good, I think a very good, chance that it will stop your odd problems.  But to discuss that better, knowing things such as the age of your computer might be useful.  But I wouldn't be surprised if having your computer checked might cost fifty dollars, maybe more.  I haven't had it done for many years and I don't know current prices.  I think a desktop from Computers for the Blind costs about $100.

 

But I'm not a tech and I don't know how likely it would be that your problem might be easily solved by cleaning memory contacts.  I would expect that if you were having memory problems, though, you would have odd things like crashes and improper bootups.

As far as search, if, as in any search, something produces too many results, make it more specific.  I'm not sure how you would in this case.  Try Microsoft Outlook.  It may then be the first result and you may have to use read current line or down arrow and up arrow once to see it.

 

Regarding ribbons, if they are taught properly, they shouldn't be particularly difficult to learn for a lot or for most people.  They may take some time and practice to get used to but a lot of the fear of ribbons is the result of people not learning them properly and then telling others, who tell others, and so on.

 

Below my signature is my tutorial on ribbons.  It isn't long.  If you work with it, you will likely find ribbons very understandable.

 

Gene

 

I'll provide a brief tutorial based on what I wrote years ago of how to work with ribbons. 

 

I've added a little to it here.

 

I don't know how the organization of Windows has changed in Windows 10 but this description should allow you to look through the Windows ribbons, or any other ribbons, and see how things are organized. 

 

First, I'll discuss a structure found in later versions of Windows that you need to know about-- the split button. 
One thing you will see as you look around ribbons and in other places in Windows are split buttons. A split button often allows you to see more options than just the default action.  Let's take an example. 
Let's say you come across a split button that says shut down Windows.  If you press enter on that button, Windows will shut down.  That is the default action.  Split buttons often show more options if you either right arrow while on the button or down arrow.  As an example, if you are on the shut down split button, you can right arrow and a list of options will open.  the items in the list include sleep, hibernate, restart, and others.  You up or down arrow through the list or use the short cut commands you hear announced as you move through the list.  the letter shortcuts often take actions without pressing enter so be careful when using them, just as you are in menus. 

 

So, let's review.  You find a split button that says shut down.  If you press enter, the computer will shut down. If you right arrow, other options may be displayed.  Or if you down arrow, other options may be displayed.  A split button won't work with both methods.  One method, either right arrowing or down arrowing will do so if it can be done with the button.  Try both methods if you don't know which one might work.  If you are on a tool bar which extends across the screen from left to right, down arrowing will open additional options.  If you think about this, it makes sense.  If you are in a menu, down arrowing will move you to the next item in the menu.  So you right arrow on the split button to cause it to display more options.  In a tool bar that extends across the screen from left to right, right arrowing will move you to the next item in the tool bar.  So you down arrow when on the split button to cause it to display more options.  But some tool bars run up and down the screen, as menus do.  And at times, you may not be sure which way a structure extends on screen.  So, as I said, if you are not sure or don't know, try both methods of causing the split button to display more options.  Often, one of them will work. If you open the options a split button offers and don't want to work with them, arrow in the opposite direction to move out of them.  For example, if you right arrowed to open more options, left arrow. 
Some split buttons don't do anything when you right arrow or down arrow.  In that case, open them with alt down arrow.  Then tab through the additional options.  I've almost never worked in this way with split buttons but if you want to close a split button, try alt up arrow if you've used alt down arrow to open it.

 

Now, to ribbons themselves.

 

Regarding ribbons, much of the complaining about them is not warranted if you understand how they work and how to use short cut commands effectively and efficiently.  and I would strongly recommend against using the JAWS virtual menus, no matter what the JAWS training material says about ribbons being difficult to use.  the training material is just plain wrong and using virtual menus, you will be unnecessarily dependent on one screen-reader.  There are other disadvantages to using them which I won't go into here.

 

Try looking at ribbons and doing what is described below in wordpad.  Everyone with Windows 7 has Wordpad on their machine.  Wordpad provides a good environment to look at and practice working with ribbons.  

 

The essence of working with ribbons is this:
Press alt to move to the upper ribbon.
You will probably be on an item that says home tab. Items on the upper ribbon are announced as tabs such as home tab, view tab, etc. 
To see what ribbons are available, right or left arrow repeatedly to move through the ribbons.  Move in one
direction to move through all of them, just as you would to move through all the menus.

 

For this demonstration, just so we are all doing the same thing, move with the right arrow. When you get back to where you started, you can keep right arrowing to move through the items again, if you wish.  You can move through all the items as many times as you want. Or you can move with the left arrow whenever you want to move in the opposite direction.  

 

Stop on view.  Then start tabbing.  You will move through all items in what is called the lower ribbon that are in the view ribbon. 

 

In other words you tab to see the items in a ribbon once you move to it.  Tab moves you forward through the items, shift tab moves you backword.
So tab and shift tab are used instead of up and down arrow. 

 

Many items in the lower ribbon are buttons.  Use either the space bar or enter to activate the button. You may find a button that opens a menu and if you press enter or the space bar, you will then be in a menu.

 

Each time you move to an item, you will hear the short cut command to work with that item. 
But JAWS has a bug and you often won't.  To hear the short cut, use the command JAWS key tab.  If you are using the default JAWS key, it is either insert.

 

Try tabbing to an item in a Wordpad ribbon and using the command insert tab.  You will hear some extraneous information.  The last thing you will hear is the short cut sequence.  You can repeat the information by repeating the command as often as you want.

 

Let's look at an item which is usually called the application menu.  Return to the main program window in wordpad by closing the ribbons.  You can either press escape repeatedly, if necessary, or you can press alt once.  Now, open the ribbons again with alt. 
Start right arrowing until you get to the application menu.
You will hear application menu and then something like button drop down grid.  Never mind drop down grid.  It's a description you don't have to worry about.  The important things are that you are on a button and at the application menu.  Press enter or the space bar to activate the button.  Activating the button opens the menu.  Start down arrowing. you will hear all the short cut commands necessary to open an item or take an action.  When you got to the menu item, you heard alt f.  When you open the menu and move through it, you will hear all the letters announced.  for example, if you down arrow to save as, you will hear alt f a.  that means that, when you are in the main program window, you open the menu as you always did, alt f, then type a.  Alt f opens the menau and a then opens save as.  Ribbon programs have one menu and you should look through it.  Many important and common commands and interfaces such as options may be there.  By options, I mean the kind of options interface you used to find in the tools menu.

 

Now the we have seen the menu, let's look at the ribbons structure some more.
To review, and add more information, as you have seen, you can move to the ribbon interface with alt.  Then right and left arrow, just as you would move from menu to menu. 
You can also move to a ribbon using alt and a letter.  So, alt h takes you to the home ribbon.  Alt v takes you to the view ribbon, etc.  Once you are on the ribbon you want to work with, tab to move forward through the items in a ribbon.  Shift tab to move back through the items.  So tab and shift tab are used instead of up and down arrow.
Ribbons are divided into categories which you will hear announced as you tab.  for example, in an e-mail program, a ribbon may have a category named respond.  You may hear this announced as respond tool bar.  As you tab, you will hear commands such as reply and forward in the respond category.  When you hear a category announced, don't tab until you hear everything spoken.  You will miss the first command in the category if you do.  I'm talking about working with an unfamiliar ribbon. 
there are often many more commands and items in a ribbon than in a menu.  So memorize command sequences for items you know you will use regularly. 
As I said, there are different categories in ribbons to help organize items.  You can quickly jump from category to category in a ribbon to help you see if there is a category you want to look through. 
Move to a ribbon in Wordpad.  For example, alt h for hhome or alt v for view.
Then repeatedly issue the command control right arrow to move forward from category to category and control left arrow to move back.  When you get to a category you want to hear the items in, start tabbing.  Of course, you can shift tab to move back. 

 

Open a ribbon in Wordpad and tab through it to see how it is organized by moving through it. 
Then use control right arrow to move by category and tab to see what is in a category. 

 

Commands such as control o, control n, control s, control r, etc. are mostly retained in programs
that use ribbons, though you won't hear them announced. If you don't already know them, you'll have to find them in ways such as by looking at a list of keyboard commands for the program.  Such lists are often available in the help for the program. If you already know the commands from having used an older version of the program, most or perhaps even all of the commands you know will work.  

Carolyn Arnold
 

Press Alt+F. You can Down Arrow to Save as, if you want. Name your document, and give it a suffix.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of TerriLynne Pomeroy
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 9:58 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Need help to save document in Microsoft Word

I have recently downgraded to Windows 10 and am using Office 2016 and JAWS 18. I have no trouble opening a new document in Microsoft Word, but can’t figure out how to save it. Any help would be appreciated.

TerriLynne

Angelo Sonnesso
 

The easiest way to do a save as is to press F12.
This brings up the save as dialog.


73 N2DYN Angelo

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Carolyn Arnold
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 8:35 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Need help to save document in Microsoft Word

Press Alt+F. You can Down Arrow to Save as, if you want. Name your document,
and give it a suffix.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of
TerriLynne Pomeroy
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 9:58 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Need help to save document in Microsoft Word

I have recently downgraded to Windows 10 and am using Office
2016 and JAWS 18. I have no trouble opening a new document in Microsoft Word,
but can't figure out how to save it. Any help would be appreciated.

TerriLynne

Brian K. Lingard
 

Dear TerriLynne Pomeroy & List:

 

If your computer is acting up, no wonder you are frustrated!

 

Sounds like your windows 10 or Office 2016 is corrupt, or both.

shortcuts & edit boxes & files should not vanish suddenly.

Call MS Disability Support (800) 936-5900 I think and do a screen share with them.

 

Get used to ribbons, they are the way MS Office now works. What screen reader are you using? JAWS 18 has a setting for use ribbons, turn it on, you need it to successfully use ribbons. They are just a different way to navigate menus.

MS Disability support usually has the patience of a Saint and is good at fixing stuff, does not require you to have software support agreement with MS.

Brian K. Lingard

 

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf of TerriLynne Pomeroy
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 6:54 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Need help to save document in Microsoft Word

 

Hi Gene,

Unfortunately, I had a hard drive go south and had to move to windows 10 and office 2016. So, I am double frustrated.

 

Part of the problem may be Microsoft Office 2016. I hate the changes to Outlook. I looked for an older version, but was told that Microsoft has been scouring the web to get rid of older versions, to force upgrades. In addition, I couldn’t email this group directly. I had to reply to another message and change the message line. Which probably means some are not getting this message because they muted the thread. 😊 I really don’t know why the reply worked and sending the message didn’t, but it is just one more frustration.

 

I haven’t really learned to use ribbons, so Microsoft word frustrates me. Luckily, the f12 save is pretty easy, if I can just reform my habit.

 

And, in Windows 10, things just get randomly deleted. I was renaming an NLS book, and suddenly the edit field was gone. I went back to my list of books, and the book wasn’t there. And it isn’t in the recycle bin.

 

Windows also randomly removes shortcuts from my desktop. The most recent shortcut to be removed was the one to Outlook. I could still go to the search box and type in Outlook, and enter on it there, but along with the program Outlook, up came all of my e-mail messages with the outlook word in them. And the order was random. I had to search the list for the program.

 

I realize that it’s all doable, fixable, get used table, but it seems that nothing runs smoothly anymore.

 

I will just keep plugging along, but I, at least right now, really dislike Windows 10.

 

TerriLynne

From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 12:47 PM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Need help to save document in Microsoft Word

 

Why do you hate it?  If it is a matter of doing things, you may find, by discussing such topics, that you find other ways you like more, perhaps being able to more or less duplicate the Windows 7 methods by using a utility that restores that interface where it has been changed.  But if you use such utilities, make sure no functionality you want is impaired or lost.  Whenever I see such discussions, that is my first question.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 1:33 PM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Need help to save document in Microsoft Word

 

I definitely mean downgraded. I really hate Windows 10 and would happily go back to something else.
TerriLynne

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of chris judge
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 9:24 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Need help to save document in Microsoft Word

Hi. I'm assuming you mean, upgraded to windows 10? What happens when you attempt to save the document using control S?

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of TerriLynne Pomeroy
Sent: January 13, 2020 10:58 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] Need help to save document in Microsoft Word

                I have recently downgraded to Windows 10 and am using Office 2016 and JAWS 18. I have no trouble opening a new document in Microsoft Word, but can’t figure out how to save it. Any help would be appreciated.

TerriLynne

 

Smiling?
 

As was already mentioned more than once is that the keystroke to Save As...
is just F12 all on its own, not Control+F12.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io [mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io] On Behalf Of
TerriLynne Pomeroy
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 11:31 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Need help to save document in Microsoft Word

Well, the control s does not work. It is what I have always used in the
past. But the ctrl f12, which I have never used, did work.
And my version of office says 2016.
TerriLynne
-----Original Message-----
From: main@TechTalk.groups.io <main@TechTalk.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ann
Parsons
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 12:13 PM
To: main@techtalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] Need help to save document in Microsoft Word

Hi all,

Word in Windows 10, incidently not the same things at all, e.g. you can
run Office2013 or Office365 on Windows10. The save commands are the
same in Word as they have been for the past twenty years. ctrl-s saves a
document. f12 takes you to the save-as dialog as it always did. You can
find these options by using alt-f which is the backstage menu.

Ann P.

--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
EMAIL: akp@...
Author of The Demmies: http://www.dldbooks.com/annparsons/
Portal Tutoring web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."

Ann Parsons
 

Hi all,

Terri, you mean just f12, not ctrl-f12. Check to see the command for saving in the Backstage menu by using alt-f.

Ann P.

--
Ann K. Parsons
Portal Tutoring
EMAIL: akp@...
Author of The Demmies: http://www.dldbooks.com/annparsons/
Portal Tutoring web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info
Skype: Putertutor

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."