Topics

nvda doesn't tell me which cells are selected in libreoffice calc.


Norman
 

Hello all.

As the subject line says, if using libreoffice with the latest version of nvda nvda doesn't report which cells i'm selecting if i hold down shift and use the arrow keys.


Does anyone know how to fix this?


David Goldfield
 

Norman, while I don't write this to be unkind could you tell us the exact version of NVDA and of LibreOffice you are using. I know you said that you are using the latest version of NVDA but that doesn't tell us exactly which version you are using.
I can confirm that this is an issue using NVDA 2020.3 and LibreOffice Calc 7.0.1. I would encourage you to search the NV Access Github to see if this has been filed as a bug. If it has not please do report this if you have not already done so.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

On 10/14/2020 5:37 AM, Norman wrote:
Hello all.

As the subject line says, if using libreoffice with the latest version of nvda nvda doesn't report which cells i'm selecting if i hold down shift and use the arrow keys.


Does anyone know how to fix this?






Norman
 

Latest means latest, right?

nvda 2020.3 and libreoffice 7.2.2

I'll check github.


Thanks.

On 10/14/2020 6:01 AM, David Goldfield wrote:
Norman, while I don't write this to be unkind could you tell us the exact version of NVDA and of LibreOffice you are using. I know you said that you are using the latest version of NVDA but that doesn't tell us exactly which version you are using.
I can confirm that this is an issue using NVDA 2020.3 and LibreOffice Calc 7.0.1. I would encourage you to search the NV Access Github to see if this has been filed as a bug. If it has not please do report this if you have not already done so.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

On 10/14/2020 5:37 AM, Norman wrote:
Hello all.

As the subject line says, if using libreoffice with the latest version of nvda nvda doesn't report which cells i'm selecting if i hold down shift and use the arrow keys.


Does anyone know how to fix this?










David Goldfield
 

     Latest means latest, right?
On one level, yes. However, please consider that someone who says "I am using the latest version of NVDA might sincerely believe that he is using the very latest version but may actually be using an earlier version without realizing it. He may not have been aware that one or more versions had been subsequently released since the version that he installed or which may have been installed for him. In fact, since a new version of NVDA was just released yesterday I can't assume that the user might actually be aware of this fact. Therefore, a user who tells me that he is using the latest version of a program doesn't actually verify to me that we're talking about the latest version. Specifying version numbers removes this ambiguity.
For LibreOffice, the latest version is 7.0.2. Is this the one you are running?

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

On 10/14/2020 7:55 AM, Norman wrote:
Latest means latest, right?

nvda 2020.3 and libreoffice 7.2.2

I'll check github.


Thanks.


On 10/14/2020 6:01 AM, David Goldfield wrote:
Norman, while I don't write this to be unkind could you tell us the exact version of NVDA and of LibreOffice you are using. I know you said that you are using the latest version of NVDA but that doesn't tell us exactly which version you are using.
I can confirm that this is an issue using NVDA 2020.3 and LibreOffice Calc 7.0.1. I would encourage you to search the NV Access Github to see if this has been filed as a bug. If it has not please do report this if you have not already done so.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019

https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidgoldfield.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C49e0b43042b84e4fb41808d87038187b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637382733507290180%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=mul9z4kBL8Kn38Q2vZHD4Y3ab1OR41QzCyBp7U2QkuI%3D&reserved=0

On 10/14/2020 5:37 AM, Norman wrote:
Hello all.

As the subject line says, if using libreoffice with the latest version of nvda nvda doesn't report which cells i'm selecting if i hold down shift and use the arrow keys.


Does anyone know how to fix this?













Norman
 

You're right on the version number. using version 7.0.2.2

Searching github, this seems to be a long standing issue that nvaccess is ignoring.


https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/6897

I'm not on the nvda list, but this would be worth reporting there.


Thanks.

On 10/14/2020 8:17 AM, David Goldfield wrote:
Latest means latest, right?
On one level, yes. However, please consider that someone who says "I am using the latest version of NVDA might sincerely believe that he is using the very latest version but may actually be using an earlier version without realizing it. He may not have been aware that one or more versions had been subsequently released since the version that he installed or which may have been installed for him. In fact, since a new version of NVDA was just released yesterday I can't assume that the user might actually be aware of this fact. Therefore, a user who tells me that he is using the latest version of a program doesn't actually verify to me that we're talking about the latest version. Specifying version numbers removes this ambiguity.
For LibreOffice, the latest version is 7.0.2. Is this the one you are running?

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

On 10/14/2020 7:55 AM, Norman wrote:
Latest means latest, right?

nvda 2020.3 and libreoffice 7.2.2

I'll check github.


Thanks.


On 10/14/2020 6:01 AM, David Goldfield wrote:
Norman, while I don't write this to be unkind could you tell us the exact version of NVDA and of LibreOffice you are using. I know you said that you are using the latest version of NVDA but that doesn't tell us exactly which version you are using.
I can confirm that this is an issue using NVDA 2020.3 and LibreOffice Calc 7.0.1. I would encourage you to search the NV Access Github to see if this has been filed as a bug. If it has not please do report this if you have not already done so.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019

https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidgoldfield.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C49e0b43042b84e4fb41808d87038187b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637382733507290180%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=mul9z4kBL8Kn38Q2vZHD4Y3ab1OR41QzCyBp7U2QkuI%3D&reserved=0

On 10/14/2020 5:37 AM, Norman wrote:
Hello all.

As the subject line says, if using libreoffice with the latest version of nvda nvda doesn't report which cells i'm selecting if i hold down shift and use the arrow keys.


Does anyone know how to fix this?

















David Goldfield
 

Do we know that NV Access is ignoring this issue? We need to consider that they have many bugs in the queue and that these issues need to be carefully prioritized and, as we say in the industry, groomed based on many factors. How severe is the bug? How many users might it affect? What is the level of effort needed in order to determine what is causing the issue and what is needed to correct it? How many developers do we have and which one(s) should be assigned to address it and what is their current bandwidth and workload? Don't get me wrong; I am not downplaying the severity of this issue. Not receiving audible or possibly Braille feedback while selecting cells in a spreadsheet is an accessibility defect and it should be addressed. I'm only saying that there are many factors which determine how, when or if it can/will be addressed? I think that we should be very careful in making statements such as saying that a company is ignoring an issue just because it hasn't been addressed or commented on in a Github ticket. There may have been discussions about prioritizing LibreOffice accessibility issues that we as end users wouldn't necessarily know about.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

On 10/14/2020 8:24 AM, Norman wrote:
You're right on the version number. using version 7.0.2.2

Searching github, this seems to be a long standing issue that nvaccess is ignoring.


https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fnvaccess%2Fnvda%2Fissues%2F6897&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ce8e238f6e1e345780d3c08d8703c3552%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637382751176325234&sdata=DWoE2%2BSH7X5j1fzfr%2Bso6WSV2aVt7Du8sNr%2Fe4t6XPg%3D&reserved=0

I'm not on the nvda list, but this would be worth reporting there.


Thanks.



On 10/14/2020 8:17 AM, David Goldfield wrote:
Latest means latest, right?
On one level, yes. However, please consider that someone who says "I am using the latest version of NVDA might sincerely believe that he is using the very latest version but may actually be using an earlier version without realizing it. He may not have been aware that one or more versions had been subsequently released since the version that he installed or which may have been installed for him. In fact, since a new version of NVDA was just released yesterday I can't assume that the user might actually be aware of this fact. Therefore, a user who tells me that he is using the latest version of a program doesn't actually verify to me that we're talking about the latest version. Specifying version numbers removes this ambiguity.
For LibreOffice, the latest version is 7.0.2. Is this the one you are running?

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019

https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidgoldfield.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ce8e238f6e1e345780d3c08d8703c3552%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637382751176325234&sdata=Xz2G6ktNvhU7mU2kQbM6AJKszmhkhFXIgww2%2BWFjF6k%3D&reserved=0

On 10/14/2020 7:55 AM, Norman wrote:
Latest means latest, right?

nvda 2020.3 and libreoffice 7.2.2

I'll check github.


Thanks.


On 10/14/2020 6:01 AM, David Goldfield wrote:
Norman, while I don't write this to be unkind could you tell us the exact version of NVDA and of LibreOffice you are using. I know you said that you are using the latest version of NVDA but that doesn't tell us exactly which version you are using.
I can confirm that this is an issue using NVDA 2020.3 and LibreOffice Calc 7.0.1. I would encourage you to search the NV Access Github to see if this has been filed as a bug. If it has not please do report this if you have not already done so.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019

https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidgoldfield.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ce8e238f6e1e345780d3c08d8703c3552%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637382751176325234&sdata=Xz2G6ktNvhU7mU2kQbM6AJKszmhkhFXIgww2%2BWFjF6k%3D&reserved=0

On 10/14/2020 5:37 AM, Norman wrote:
Hello all.

As the subject line says, if using libreoffice with the latest version of nvda nvda doesn't report which cells i'm selecting if i hold down shift and use the arrow keys.


Does anyone know how to fix this?




















Gene
 

And is the responsibility with NVDA or with the program itself? Did the program work properly in this respect in the past? Did the same version of the program work properly with an earlier version of NVDA? It may be that NVDA can be made to work properly with this feature of Libre Office, but various programs included with Libre Office have long not been properly accessible. I don't know how the program sends such information to NVDA and it may require the developers of Libre Office to address the problem or it may take unreasonable time and resources for NVDA to correct something that is a fault of the program, given the priorities and resource limitations you spoke of.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: David Goldfield
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 7:45 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] nvda doesn't tell me which cells are selected in libreoffice calc.

Do we know that NV Access is ignoring this issue? We need to consider
that they have many bugs in the queue and that these issues need to be
carefully prioritized and, as we say in the industry, groomed based on
many factors. How severe is the bug? How many users might it affect?
What is the level of effort needed in order to determine what is causing
the issue and what is needed to correct it? How many developers do we
have and which one(s) should be assigned to address it and what is their
current bandwidth and workload? Don't get me wrong; I am not downplaying
the severity of this issue. Not receiving audible or possibly Braille
feedback while selecting cells in a spreadsheet is an accessibility
defect and it should be addressed. I'm only saying that there are many
factors which determine how, when or if it can/will be addressed? I
think that we should be very careful in making statements such as saying
that a company is ignoring an issue just because it hasn't been
addressed or commented on in a Github ticket. There may have been
discussions about prioritizing LibreOffice accessibility issues that we
as end users wouldn't necessarily know about.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

On 10/14/2020 8:24 AM, Norman wrote:
You're right on the version number. using version 7.0.2.2

Searching github, this seems to be a long standing issue that nvaccess is ignoring.


https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fnvaccess%2Fnvda%2Fissues%2F6897&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ce8e238f6e1e345780d3c08d8703c3552%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637382751176325234&sdata=DWoE2%2BSH7X5j1fzfr%2Bso6WSV2aVt7Du8sNr%2Fe4t6XPg%3D&reserved=0

I'm not on the nvda list, but this would be worth reporting there.


Thanks.



On 10/14/2020 8:17 AM, David Goldfield wrote:
Latest means latest, right?
On one level, yes. However, please consider that someone who says "I am using the latest version of NVDA might sincerely believe that he is using the very latest version but may actually be using an earlier version without realizing it. He may not have been aware that one or more versions had been subsequently released since the version that he installed or which may have been installed for him. In fact, since a new version of NVDA was just released yesterday I can't assume that the user might actually be aware of this fact. Therefore, a user who tells me that he is using the latest version of a program doesn't actually verify to me that we're talking about the latest version. Specifying version numbers removes this ambiguity.
For LibreOffice, the latest version is 7.0.2. Is this the one you are running?

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019

https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidgoldfield.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ce8e238f6e1e345780d3c08d8703c3552%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637382751176325234&sdata=Xz2G6ktNvhU7mU2kQbM6AJKszmhkhFXIgww2%2BWFjF6k%3D&reserved=0

On 10/14/2020 7:55 AM, Norman wrote:
Latest means latest, right?

nvda 2020.3 and libreoffice 7.2.2

I'll check github.


Thanks.


On 10/14/2020 6:01 AM, David Goldfield wrote:
Norman, while I don't write this to be unkind could you tell us the exact version of NVDA and of LibreOffice you are using. I know you said that you are using the latest version of NVDA but that doesn't tell us exactly which version you are using.
I can confirm that this is an issue using NVDA 2020.3 and LibreOffice Calc 7.0.1. I would encourage you to search the NV Access Github to see if this has been filed as a bug. If it has not please do report this if you have not already done so.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019

https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidgoldfield.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ce8e238f6e1e345780d3c08d8703c3552%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637382751176325234&sdata=Xz2G6ktNvhU7mU2kQbM6AJKszmhkhFXIgww2%2BWFjF6k%3D&reserved=0

On 10/14/2020 5:37 AM, Norman wrote:
Hello all.

As the subject line says, if using libreoffice with the latest version of nvda nvda doesn't report which cells i'm selecting if i hold down shift and use the arrow keys.


Does anyone know how to fix this?





















Quentin Christensen
 

Just confirming that as per the discussion on the linked issue - https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/6897 - it's not that we're ignoring it, but that we need LibreOffice to expose what is happening so we can report it.  We have had virtually no success in getting any traction on issues with LibreOffice.

For the record, I found this issue reported against LibreOffice back in 2016 which is still listed as "New"... https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=100086

If anyone has any contacts with LibreOffice developers, do please feel free to get them in touch with us...

Quentin.

On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 11:51 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
And is the responsibility with NVDA or with the program itself?  Did the
program work properly in this respect in the past?  Did the same version of
the program work properly with an earlier version of NVDA?  It may be that
NVDA can be made to work properly with this feature of Libre Office, but
various programs included with Libre Office have long not been properly
accessible.  I don't know how the program sends such information to NVDA and
it may require the developers of Libre Office to address the problem or it
may take unreasonable time and resources for NVDA to correct something that
is a fault of the program, given the priorities and resource limitations you
spoke of.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: David Goldfield
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 7:45 AM
To: main@TechTalk.groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] nvda doesn't tell me which cells are selected in
libreoffice calc.

Do we know that NV Access is ignoring this issue? We need to consider
that they have many bugs in the queue and that these issues need to be
carefully prioritized and, as we say in the industry, groomed based on
many factors. How severe is the bug? How many users might it affect?
What is the level of effort needed in order to determine what is causing
the issue and what is needed to correct it? How many developers do we
have and which one(s) should be assigned to address it and what is their
current bandwidth and workload? Don't get me wrong; I am not downplaying
the severity of this issue. Not receiving audible or possibly Braille
feedback while selecting cells in a spreadsheet is an accessibility
defect and it should be addressed. I'm only saying that there are many
factors which determine how, when or if it can/will be addressed? I
think that we should be very careful in making statements such as saying
that a company is ignoring an issue just because it hasn't been
addressed or commented on in a Github ticket. There may have been
discussions about prioritizing LibreOffice accessibility issues that we
as end users wouldn't necessarily know about.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

On 10/14/2020 8:24 AM, Norman wrote:
> You're right on the version number. using version 7.0.2.2
>
> Searching github, this seems to be a long standing issue that nvaccess is
> ignoring.
>
>
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fnvaccess%2Fnvda%2Fissues%2F6897&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Ce8e238f6e1e345780d3c08d8703c3552%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637382751176325234&amp;sdata=DWoE2%2BSH7X5j1fzfr%2Bso6WSV2aVt7Du8sNr%2Fe4t6XPg%3D&amp;reserved=0
>
> I'm not on the nvda list, but this would be worth reporting there.
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> On 10/14/2020 8:17 AM, David Goldfield wrote:
>> > Latest means latest, right?
>>
>> On one level, yes. However, please consider that someone who says "I am
>> using the latest version of NVDA might sincerely believe that he is using
>> the very latest version but may actually be using an earlier version
>> without realizing it. He may not have been aware that one or more
>> versions had been subsequently released since the version that he
>> installed or which may have been installed for him. In fact, since a new
>> version of NVDA was just released yesterday I can't assume that the user
>> might actually be aware of this fact. Therefore, a user who tells me that
>> he is using the latest version of a program doesn't actually verify to me
>> that we're talking about the latest version. Specifying version numbers
>> removes this ambiguity.
>> For LibreOffice, the latest version is 7.0.2. Is this the one you are
>> running?
>>
>> David Goldfield,
>> Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
>> JAWS Certified, 2019
>>
>> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidgoldfield.org%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Ce8e238f6e1e345780d3c08d8703c3552%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637382751176325234&amp;sdata=Xz2G6ktNvhU7mU2kQbM6AJKszmhkhFXIgww2%2BWFjF6k%3D&amp;reserved=0
>>
>> On 10/14/2020 7:55 AM, Norman wrote:
>>> Latest means latest, right?
>>>
>>> nvda 2020.3 and libreoffice 7.2.2
>>>
>>> I'll check github.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/14/2020 6:01 AM, David Goldfield wrote:
>>>> Norman, while I don't write this to be unkind could you tell us the
>>>> exact version of NVDA and of LibreOffice you are using. I know you said
>>>> that you are using the latest version of NVDA but that doesn't tell us
>>>> exactly which version you are using.
>>>> I can confirm that this is an issue using NVDA 2020.3 and LibreOffice
>>>> Calc 7.0.1. I would encourage you to search the NV Access Github to see
>>>> if this has been filed as a bug. If it has not please do report this if
>>>> you have not already done so.
>>>>
>>>> David Goldfield,
>>>> Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
>>>> JAWS Certified, 2019
>>>>
>>>> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidgoldfield.org%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Ce8e238f6e1e345780d3c08d8703c3552%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637382751176325234&amp;sdata=Xz2G6ktNvhU7mU2kQbM6AJKszmhkhFXIgww2%2BWFjF6k%3D&amp;reserved=0
>>>>
>>>> On 10/14/2020 5:37 AM, Norman wrote:
>>>>> Hello all.
>>>>>
>>>>> As the subject line says, if using libreoffice with the latest version
>>>>> of nvda nvda doesn't report which cells i'm selecting if i hold down
>>>>> shift and use the arrow keys.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Does anyone know how to fix this?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>












--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager