Topics

tips for making Windows 8 accessible?


joanne
 

I am going to be using Windows 8 on my laptop, and I know that one thing I will do to make it read better and easier to find programs is to install Classic Shell.  I use Jaws 16 and NVDA, and I prefer a very straightforward way to find programs or use the Internet which involves as many list views as possible.  Besides the suggestion I was given to use Classic Shell, are there other tips you can give to make this a way to navigate it so it works for me like 7 or even XP as far as the look or style of the program?  I will also be using Outlook Express or Windows Mail, whichever program you may recommend as being more stable.  Any help is very much appreciated.
 
Joanne


Dave Mitchel <dbmitchel@...>
 

I use W8.1 and the first thing I did was send shortcuts for my programs to the desktop.
I use windows Live mail and find it very easy to use and navigate. I use window eyes (which I will not recommend) and NVDA. I do not have classic shell installed that I know of. I know I did not install it and I am the only one here to have done it.
I use the 64 bit W8.1 and there are a couple of my old programs (such as booksplit) which I continue to use.
Dave
 

From: joanne
Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 9:32 AM
Subject: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8 accessible?
 
I am going to be using Windows 8 on my laptop, and I know that one thing I will do to make it read better and easier to find programs is to install Classic Shell.  I use Jaws 16 and NVDA, and I prefer a very straightforward way to find programs or use the Internet which involves as many list views as possible.  Besides the suggestion I was given to use Classic Shell, are there other tips you can give to make this a way to navigate it so it works for me like 7 or even XP as far as the look or style of the program?  I will also be using Outlook Express or Windows Mail, whichever program you may recommend as being more stable.  Any help is very much appreciated.
 
Joanne


joanne
 

Dave or others:  I had heard Windows 8.1 has no start menu that's accessible.  So when you put your programs on the desktop you'd recommend every program I use, since supposedly I won't be able to get to an actual start menu?  And did you find your programs by yourself or do I need to get sighted help finding my favorite programs?  I also heard there's some kind of annoying bar that pops up; can any tool bars that might get in the way be removed?
 
?

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 11:59 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8 accessible?

I use W8.1 and the first thing I did was send shortcuts for my programs to the desktop.
I use windows Live mail and find it very easy to use and navigate. I use window eyes (which I will not recommend) and NVDA. I do not have classic shell installed that I know of. I know I did not install it and I am the only one here to have done it.
I use the 64 bit W8.1 and there are a couple of my old programs (such as booksplit) which I continue to use.
Dave
 
From: joanne
Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 9:32 AM
Subject: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8 accessible?
 
I am going to be using Windows 8 on my laptop, and I know that one thing I will do to make it read better and easier to find programs is to install Classic Shell.  I use Jaws 16 and NVDA, and I prefer a very straightforward way to find programs or use the Internet which involves as many list views as possible.  Besides the suggestion I was given to use Classic Shell, are there other tips you can give to make this a way to navigate it so it works for me like 7 or even XP as far as the look or style of the program?  I will also be using Outlook Express or Windows Mail, whichever program you may recommend as being more stable.  Any help is very much appreciated.
 
Joanne


Gene
 

I don't know what you mean by wanting as many list views as possible.  You will be a much better Internet user and be able to do more and better by learning how to navigate efficiently with the page, and not rely on artificial structures some screen-readers provide as options.  There are good tutorials for learning how to use the Internet well and not be hampered on artificial structures.  I did a tutorial which is somewhat out of date by now but the first chapter, discussing the basics of web page navigation is still relevant, though some examples are no longer online.  But even though they are not there, listening to how I work with them may well give you a good idea.  If you want to listen to the first chapter, let me know and I'll upload the first chapter with some sample pages I use. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: joanne
Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 9:32 AM
Subject: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8 accessible?
 
I am going to be using Windows 8 on my laptop, and I know that one thing I will do to make it read better and easier to find programs is to install Classic Shell.  I use Jaws 16 and NVDA, and I prefer a very straightforward way to find programs or use the Internet which involves as many list views as possible.  Besides the suggestion I was given to use Classic Shell, are there other tips you can give to make this a way to navigate it so it works for me like 7 or even XP as far as the look or style of the program?  I will also be using Outlook Express or Windows Mail, whichever program you may recommend as being more stable.  Any help is very much appreciated.
 
Joanne


Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...>
 

Hi,

]Actually, Windows 8.x Start screen (that’s what it’s called there) is very accessible. The only problem is that you can’t use first letter navigation (as in Windows 7 and earlier) to move to the program you want, although you can display all installed programs. Windows 10 is a different story, however.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: joanne [mailto:grandma1323@...]
Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 10:19 AM
To: TechTalk@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8 accessible?

 

Dave or others:  I had heard Windows 8.1 has no start menu that's accessible.  So when you put your programs on the desktop you'd recommend every program I use, since supposedly I won't be able to get to an actual start menu?  And did you find your programs by yourself or do I need to get sighted help finding my favorite programs?  I also heard there's some kind of annoying bar that pops up; can any tool bars that might get in the way be removed?

 

?

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 11:59 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8 accessible?

 

I use W8.1 and the first thing I did was send shortcuts for my programs to the desktop.

I use windows Live mail and find it very easy to use and navigate. I use window eyes (which I will not recommend) and NVDA. I do not have classic shell installed that I know of. I know I did not install it and I am the only one here to have done it.

I use the 64 bit W8.1 and there are a couple of my old programs (such as booksplit) which I continue to use.

Dave

 

From: joanne

Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 9:32 AM

Subject: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8 accessible?

 

I am going to be using Windows 8 on my laptop, and I know that one thing I will do to make it read better and easier to find programs is to install Classic Shell.  I use Jaws 16 and NVDA, and I prefer a very straightforward way to find programs or use the Internet which involves as many list views as possible.  Besides the suggestion I was given to use Classic Shell, are there other tips you can give to make this a way to navigate it so it works for me like 7 or even XP as far as the look or style of the program?  I will also be using Outlook Express or Windows Mail, whichever program you may recommend as being more stable.  Any help is very much appreciated.

 

Joanne


Loy
 

You could use Start is back, it costs $2.99 for one computer. It brings back the start menu and you can navigate by first letter. Check it out at

----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 1:27 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8 accessible?

Hi,

]Actually, Windows 8.x Start screen (that’s what it’s called there) is very accessible. The only problem is that you can’t use first letter navigation (as in Windows 7 and earlier) to move to the program you want, although you can display all installed programs. Windows 10 is a different story, however.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: joanne [mailto:grandma1323@...]
Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 10:19 AM
To: TechTalk@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8 accessible?

 

Dave or others:  I had heard Windows 8.1 has no start menu that's accessible.  So when you put your programs on the desktop you'd recommend every program I use, since supposedly I won't be able to get to an actual start menu?  And did you find your programs by yourself or do I need to get sighted help finding my favorite programs?  I also heard there's some kind of annoying bar that pops up; can any tool bars that might get in the way be removed?

 

?

----- Original Message -----

From: Dave Mitchel

Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 11:59 AM

Subject: Re: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8 accessible?

 

I use W8.1 and the first thing I did was send shortcuts for my programs to the desktop.

I use windows Live mail and find it very easy to use and navigate. I use window eyes (which I will not recommend) and NVDA. I do not have classic shell installed that I know of. I know I did not install it and I am the only one here to have done it.

I use the 64 bit W8.1 and there are a couple of my old programs (such as booksplit) which I continue to use.

Dave

 

From: joanne

Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 9:32 AM

Subject: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8 accessible?

 

I am going to be using Windows 8 on my laptop, and I know that one thing I will do to make it read better and easier to find programs is to install Classic Shell.  I use Jaws 16 and NVDA, and I prefer a very straightforward way to find programs or use the Internet which involves as many list views as possible.  Besides the suggestion I was given to use Classic Shell, are there other tips you can give to make this a way to navigate it so it works for me like 7 or even XP as far as the look or style of the program?  I will also be using Outlook Express or Windows Mail, whichever program you may recommend as being more stable.  Any help is very much appreciated.

 

Joanne


Marie
 

I used Win 7 for quite a few years but after using 8.1 for almost a year I find that the less you try to make it like 7 the better off you will be in the long run. At first I got very frustrated with 8 but once I got accustomed to it, I really like it a lot and find I can navigate and accomplish tasks faster than with previous OS versions. It boots up so quickly I am sometimes startled by the speed. It is definitely a learning curve but to me it has been well worth the change.
I know you will find many others who will disagree with my opinions so you will have to make up your own mind according to your own level of comfort.
 
Marie
 

From: joanne
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 9:32 AM
Subject: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8 accessible?
 
I am going to be using Windows 8 on my laptop, and I know that one thing I will do to make it read better and easier to find programs is to install Classic Shell.  I use Jaws 16 and NVDA, and I prefer a very straightforward way to find programs or use the Internet which involves as many list views as possible.  Besides the suggestion I was given to use Classic Shell, are there other tips you can give to make this a way to navigate it so it works for me like 7 or even XP as far as the look or style of the program?  I will also be using Outlook Express or Windows Mail, whichever program you may recommend as being more stable.  Any help is very much appreciated.
 
Joanne


joanne
 

Yes I would like to see your first chapter.  That would help a lot, but what I meant by list views is that some programs or folders may no longer have the option of sort by list, and when it's put to, say, details it doesn't read the way I'm used to reading.  And this will open a can of worms but I won't work with ribbons because it looked really confusing in the newer Windows Live Mail, and I don't know what their purpose is.  I tried using the Jaws ribbon option but it just didn't make sense, which is one big reason I stick with Windows Mail and Outlook Express.  So anything you have that could help with the Internet will be appreciated.
 
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 12:21 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8 accessible?

I don't know what you mean by wanting as many list views as possible.  You will be a much better Internet user and be able to do more and better by learning how to navigate efficiently with the page, and not rely on artificial structures some screen-readers provide as options.  There are good tutorials for learning how to use the Internet well and not be hampered on artificial structures.  I did a tutorial which is somewhat out of date by now but the first chapter, discussing the basics of web page navigation is still relevant, though some examples are no longer online.  But even though they are not there, listening to how I work with them may well give you a good idea.  If you want to listen to the first chapter, let me know and I'll upload the first chapter with some sample pages I use. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: joanne
Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 9:32 AM
Subject: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8 accessible?
 
I am going to be using Windows 8 on my laptop, and I know that one thing I will do to make it read better and easier to find programs is to install Classic Shell.  I use Jaws 16 and NVDA, and I prefer a very straightforward way to find programs or use the Internet which involves as many list views as possible.  Besides the suggestion I was given to use Classic Shell, are there other tips you can give to make this a way to navigate it so it works for me like 7 or even XP as far as the look or style of the program?  I will also be using Outlook Express or Windows Mail, whichever program you may recommend as being more stable.  Any help is very much appreciated.
 
Joanne


Gene
 

And for reasons such as given in the below post, I would suggest asking how to do things in Windows 8, trying them, and then deciding if you want to try to make Windows 8 like Windows 7. 
 
I don't have Windows 8 so I am not expressing an opinion about whether you should use it as Windows 8 or make it more like Windows 7.  I'm saying that a lot of blind people resist change in computer interfaces and spread inaccurate information, thus unintentionally encouraging others to resist change.  As an example, if you ask here and get good instructions about how to use the search feature in the start menu, you may find that you want to use it for certain things, even if you want to use the old Windows 7 start menu for others. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Marie
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8 accessible?

I used Win 7 for quite a few years but after using 8.1 for almost a year I find that the less you try to make it like 7 the better off you will be in the long run. At first I got very frustrated with 8 but once I got accustomed to it, I really like it a lot and find I can navigate and accomplish tasks faster than with previous OS versions. It boots up so quickly I am sometimes startled by the speed. It is definitely a learning curve but to me it has been well worth the change.
I know you will find many others who will disagree with my opinions so you will have to make up your own mind according to your own level of comfort.
 
Marie
 
From: joanne
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 9:32 AM
Subject: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8 accessible?
 
I am going to be using Windows 8 on my laptop, and I know that one thing I will do to make it read better and easier to find programs is to install Classic Shell.  I use Jaws 16 and NVDA, and I prefer a very straightforward way to find programs or use the Internet which involves as many list views as possible.  Besides the suggestion I was given to use Classic Shell, are there other tips you can give to make this a way to navigate it so it works for me like 7 or even XP as far as the look or style of the program?  I will also be using Outlook Express or Windows Mail, whichever program you may recommend as being more stable.  Any help is very much appreciated.
 
Joanne


Gene
 

I'll send you a discussion of how to work with ribbons that I wrote.  I'm not saying you should or shouldn't work with ribbons but I am saying that I hope you read and try what I explain.  the point isn't to get you to work with ribbons.  The point is that I hope the experience shows you that something you look at without proper explanation may seem confusing but that that is not necessarily a reason to reject the thing.  It may be a reason to ask on a list with knowledgeable users like this one, for an explanation or where to find good information.   
 
I'll have the ribbons information available in about twenty minutes.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: joanne
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 12:57 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8 accessible?

Yes I would like to see your first chapter.  That would help a lot, but what I meant by list views is that some programs or folders may no longer have the option of sort by list, and when it's put to, say, details it doesn't read the way I'm used to reading.  And this will open a can of worms but I won't work with ribbons because it looked really confusing in the newer Windows Live Mail, and I don't know what their purpose is.  I tried using the Jaws ribbon option but it just didn't make sense, which is one big reason I stick with Windows Mail and Outlook Express.  So anything you have that could help with the Internet will be appreciated.
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 12:21 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8 accessible?

I don't know what you mean by wanting as many list views as possible.  You will be a much better Internet user and be able to do more and better by learning how to navigate efficiently with the page, and not rely on artificial structures some screen-readers provide as options.  There are good tutorials for learning how to use the Internet well and not be hampered on artificial structures.  I did a tutorial which is somewhat out of date by now but the first chapter, discussing the basics of web page navigation is still relevant, though some examples are no longer online.  But even though they are not there, listening to how I work with them may well give you a good idea.  If you want to listen to the first chapter, let me know and I'll upload the first chapter with some sample pages I use. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: joanne
Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 9:32 AM
Subject: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8 accessible?
 
I am going to be using Windows 8 on my laptop, and I know that one thing I will do to make it read better and easier to find programs is to install Classic Shell.  I use Jaws 16 and NVDA, and I prefer a very straightforward way to find programs or use the Internet which involves as many list views as possible.  Besides the suggestion I was given to use Classic Shell, are there other tips you can give to make this a way to navigate it so it works for me like 7 or even XP as far as the look or style of the program?  I will also be using Outlook Express or Windows Mail, whichever program you may recommend as being more stable.  Any help is very much appreciated.
 
Joanne


joanne
 

I appreciate your help, Gene, and I will indeed listen to the tutorials.  I do feel like one of those who doesn't want to leave my comfort zone as far as the way things are done as programs change; but at the same time I taught myself a lot about computers and I will certainly experiment and see what I think.
 
Thank you.
 
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 1:24 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8 accessible?

I'll send you a discussion of how to work with ribbons that I wrote.  I'm not saying you should or shouldn't work with ribbons but I am saying that I hope you read and try what I explain.  the point isn't to get you to work with ribbons.  The point is that I hope the experience shows you that something you look at without proper explanation may seem confusing but that that is not necessarily a reason to reject the thing.  It may be a reason to ask on a list with knowledgeable users like this one, for an explanation or where to find good information.   
 
I'll have the ribbons information available in about twenty minutes.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: joanne
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 12:57 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8 accessible?

Yes I would like to see your first chapter.  That would help a lot, but what I meant by list views is that some programs or folders may no longer have the option of sort by list, and when it's put to, say, details it doesn't read the way I'm used to reading.  And this will open a can of worms but I won't work with ribbons because it looked really confusing in the newer Windows Live Mail, and I don't know what their purpose is.  I tried using the Jaws ribbon option but it just didn't make sense, which is one big reason I stick with Windows Mail and Outlook Express.  So anything you have that could help with the Internet will be appreciated.
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 12:21 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8 accessible?

I don't know what you mean by wanting as many list views as possible.  You will be a much better Internet user and be able to do more and better by learning how to navigate efficiently with the page, and not rely on artificial structures some screen-readers provide as options.  There are good tutorials for learning how to use the Internet well and not be hampered on artificial structures.  I did a tutorial which is somewhat out of date by now but the first chapter, discussing the basics of web page navigation is still relevant, though some examples are no longer online.  But even though they are not there, listening to how I work with them may well give you a good idea.  If you want to listen to the first chapter, let me know and I'll upload the first chapter with some sample pages I use. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: joanne
Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 9:32 AM
Subject: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8 accessible?
 
I am going to be using Windows 8 on my laptop, and I know that one thing I will do to make it read better and easier to find programs is to install Classic Shell.  I use Jaws 16 and NVDA, and I prefer a very straightforward way to find programs or use the Internet which involves as many list views as possible.  Besides the suggestion I was given to use Classic Shell, are there other tips you can give to make this a way to navigate it so it works for me like 7 or even XP as far as the look or style of the program?  I will also be using Outlook Express or Windows Mail, whichever program you may recommend as being more stable.  Any help is very much appreciated.
 
Joanne


Gene
 

Here is the link to the ribbons discussion. 
You will see a reference to split buttons.  If you want an explanation of split buttons, ask here. 
 
Also, the material I provided only takes a few minutes to read, though to actually do what is described will take longer.  but the point is that is not much commitment of time. 
 
Since I don't use Windows 8, I'll let others address the list and details problem. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: joanne
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 12:57 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8 accessible?

Yes I would like to see your first chapter.  That would help a lot, but what I meant by list views is that some programs or folders may no longer have the option of sort by list, and when it's put to, say, details it doesn't read the way I'm used to reading.  And this will open a can of worms but I won't work with ribbons because it looked really confusing in the newer Windows Live Mail, and I don't know what their purpose is.  I tried using the Jaws ribbon option but it just didn't make sense, which is one big reason I stick with Windows Mail and Outlook Express.  So anything you have that could help with the Internet will be appreciated.
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 12:21 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8 accessible?

I don't know what you mean by wanting as many list views as possible.  You will be a much better Internet user and be able to do more and better by learning how to navigate efficiently with the page, and not rely on artificial structures some screen-readers provide as options.  There are good tutorials for learning how to use the Internet well and not be hampered on artificial structures.  I did a tutorial which is somewhat out of date by now but the first chapter, discussing the basics of web page navigation is still relevant, though some examples are no longer online.  But even though they are not there, listening to how I work with them may well give you a good idea.  If you want to listen to the first chapter, let me know and I'll upload the first chapter with some sample pages I use. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: joanne
Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 9:32 AM
Subject: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8 accessible?
 
I am going to be using Windows 8 on my laptop, and I know that one thing I will do to make it read better and easier to find programs is to install Classic Shell.  I use Jaws 16 and NVDA, and I prefer a very straightforward way to find programs or use the Internet which involves as many list views as possible.  Besides the suggestion I was given to use Classic Shell, are there other tips you can give to make this a way to navigate it so it works for me like 7 or even XP as far as the look or style of the program?  I will also be using Outlook Express or Windows Mail, whichever program you may recommend as being more stable.  Any help is very much appreciated.
 
Joanne


Dave Mitchel <dbmitchel@...>
 

JoAnn, I did mine over a period of a couple of years. I found the programs or installed them llllllusually by myself. with WE it was more difficult as it does not always read the screen. I would find a program and using the context key send a short cut to desk top.
 
Patience was something I used a lot of in learning W8.1 especially after going from XP to it.
I walked away from my W8 computer more than once and was so happy that 8.1 came out and was a much better system.
you can write to me privately if you choose and I’ll try to walk you through things.
 
 

From: joanne
Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 10:18 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8 accessible?
 
Dave or others:  I had heard Windows 8.1 has no start menu that's accessible.  So when you put your programs on the desktop you'd recommend every program I use, since supposedly I won't be able to get to an actual start menu?  And did you find your programs by yourself or do I need to get sighted help finding my favorite programs?  I also heard there's some kind of annoying bar that pops up; can any tool bars that might get in the way be removed?
 
?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 11:59 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8 accessible?
 
I use W8.1 and the first thing I did was send shortcuts for my programs to the desktop.
I use windows Live mail and find it very easy to use and navigate. I use window eyes (which I will not recommend) and NVDA. I do not have classic shell installed that I know of. I know I did not install it and I am the only one here to have done it.
I use the 64 bit W8.1 and there are a couple of my old programs (such as booksplit) which I continue to use.
Dave
 
From: joanne
Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 9:32 AM
Subject: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8 accessible?
 
I am going to be using Windows 8 on my laptop, and I know that one thing I will do to make it read better and easier to find programs is to install Classic Shell.  I use Jaws 16 and NVDA, and I prefer a very straightforward way to find programs or use the Internet which involves as many list views as possible.  Besides the suggestion I was given to use Classic Shell, are there other tips you can give to make this a way to navigate it so it works for me like 7 or even XP as far as the look or style of the program?  I will also be using Outlook Express or Windows Mail, whichever program you may recommend as being more stable.  Any help is very much appreciated.
 
Joanne


Dave Mitchel <dbmitchel@...>
 

I am one who agrees with you about 8.1!
I used 7 at work and did not care for it.
 

From: Marie
Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 10:56 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8 accessible?
 
I used Win 7 for quite a few years but after using 8.1 for almost a year I find that the less you try to make it like 7 the better off you will be in the long run. At first I got very frustrated with 8 but once I got accustomed to it, I really like it a lot and find I can navigate and accomplish tasks faster than with previous OS versions. It boots up so quickly I am sometimes startled by the speed. It is definitely a learning curve but to me it has been well worth the change.
I know you will find many others who will disagree with my opinions so you will have to make up your own mind according to your own level of comfort.
 
Marie
 
From: joanne
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 9:32 AM
Subject: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8 accessible?
 
I am going to be using Windows 8 on my laptop, and I know that one thing I will do to make it read better and easier to find programs is to install Classic Shell.  I use Jaws 16 and NVDA, and I prefer a very straightforward way to find programs or use the Internet which involves as many list views as possible.  Besides the suggestion I was given to use Classic Shell, are there other tips you can give to make this a way to navigate it so it works for me like 7 or even XP as far as the look or style of the program?  I will also be using Outlook Express or Windows Mail, whichever program you may recommend as being more stable.  Any help is very much appreciated.
 
Joanne


Gene
 

Here are Chapters 1 and 2 of my Internet tutorial. 
The tutorial was created before NVDA so no NVDA commands are given.  But the concepts of navigation apply.  Many JAWS quick navigation commands also apply to NVDA.  Also, the tutorial was created long before Window-eyes changed its version of browse mode.  Some things, I'm not sure how many, will not apply.  But the information on understanding the structure and how to navigate web pages and forms still applies.  You will have to learn what commands are specifically different in the case of Window-eyes than they used to be and whether anything is different as displayed by Window-eyes.  Accept for some commands, I think you would see the page displayed in a similar way.
 
When using the tutorial, you will see folders that say something like JAWS download files.  Don't work with them.  They contain the various files that make up the web page.  Find and press enter on the files with htm or html extensions.  Don't open gthe folders that say things like JAWS download form or New York Times home page.  Only open the html files you see in the main folder.  The web page will open in your browser.  These are pages as they appeared years ago and they are mostly very different now.  But if you wish, you can follow along and see what I am describing when I work with the pages. 
 
Since the tutorial is old, newer things such as active regions and aria landmarks are not discussed.  If you want, you can learn about them elsewhere.  I haven't used aria landmarks to any extent but being a good Internet user entails knowing how to browse efficiently when such landmarks are not present.  They are not present on a lot of pages. 
 
If you know what I teach in these chapters, I'm not sure aria landmarks matter to any extent in efficient page navigation.  You can see what you think if you learn about landmarks. 
 
Gene

From: Gene
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 1:58 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8 accessible?

Here is the link to the ribbons discussion. 
You will see a reference to split buttons.  If you want an explanation of split buttons, ask here. 
 
Also, the material I provided only takes a few minutes to read, though to actually do what is described will take longer.  but the point is that is not much commitment of time. 
 
Since I don't use Windows 8, I'll let others address the list and details problem. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: joanne
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 12:57 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8 accessible?

Yes I would like to see your first chapter.  That would help a lot, but what I meant by list views is that some programs or folders may no longer have the option of sort by list, and when it's put to, say, details it doesn't read the way I'm used to reading.  And this will open a can of worms but I won't work with ribbons because it looked really confusing in the newer Windows Live Mail, and I don't know what their purpose is.  I tried using the Jaws ribbon option but it just didn't make sense, which is one big reason I stick with Windows Mail and Outlook Express.  So anything you have that could help with the Internet will be appreciated.
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 12:21 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8 accessible?

I don't know what you mean by wanting as many list views as possible.  You will be a much better Internet user and be able to do more and better by learning how to navigate efficiently with the page, and not rely on artificial structures some screen-readers provide as options.  There are good tutorials for learning how to use the Internet well and not be hampered on artificial structures.  I did a tutorial which is somewhat out of date by now but the first chapter, discussing the basics of web page navigation is still relevant, though some examples are no longer online.  But even though they are not there, listening to how I work with them may well give you a good idea.  If you want to listen to the first chapter, let me know and I'll upload the first chapter with some sample pages I use. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: joanne
Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 9:32 AM
Subject: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8 accessible?
 
I am going to be using Windows 8 on my laptop, and I know that one thing I will do to make it read better and easier to find programs is to install Classic Shell.  I use Jaws 16 and NVDA, and I prefer a very straightforward way to find programs or use the Internet which involves as many list views as possible.  Besides the suggestion I was given to use Classic Shell, are there other tips you can give to make this a way to navigate it so it works for me like 7 or even XP as far as the look or style of the program?  I will also be using Outlook Express or Windows Mail, whichever program you may recommend as being more stable.  Any help is very much appreciated.
 
Joanne


Marie
 

File explorer takes some getting used to and you will need to learn how to customize it somewhat for optimal use with screen readers. There are some tweaks which I did back when I began using 8.1 and I am not sure I can remember how to do it. So before I can give you any help on this, I have to do a little research so I don’t give you bad information. I will try to do this soon.
Marie
 
 

From: joanne
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 11:58 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8 accessible?
 
I appreciate your help, Gene, and I will indeed listen to the tutorials.  I do feel like one of those who doesn't want to leave my comfort zone as far as the way things are done as programs change; but at the same time I taught myself a lot about computers and I will certainly experiment and see what I think.
 
Thank you.
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 1:24 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8 accessible?
 
I'll send you a discussion of how to work with ribbons that I wrote.  I'm not saying you should or shouldn't work with ribbons but I am saying that I hope you read and try what I explain.  the point isn't to get you to work with ribbons.  The point is that I hope the experience shows you that something you look at without proper explanation may seem confusing but that that is not necessarily a reason to reject the thing.  It may be a reason to ask on a list with knowledgeable users like this one, for an explanation or where to find good information.  
 
I'll have the ribbons information available in about twenty minutes.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: joanne
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 12:57 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8 accessible?
 
Yes I would like to see your first chapter.  That would help a lot, but what I meant by list views is that some programs or folders may no longer have the option of sort by list, and when it's put to, say, details it doesn't read the way I'm used to reading.  And this will open a can of worms but I won't work with ribbons because it looked really confusing in the newer Windows Live Mail, and I don't know what their purpose is.  I tried using the Jaws ribbon option but it just didn't make sense, which is one big reason I stick with Windows Mail and Outlook Express.  So anything you have that could help with the Internet will be appreciated.
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 12:21 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8 accessible?
 
I don't know what you mean by wanting as many list views as possible.  You will be a much better Internet user and be able to do more and better by learning how to navigate efficiently with the page, and not rely on artificial structures some screen-readers provide as options.  There are good tutorials for learning how to use the Internet well and not be hampered on artificial structures.  I did a tutorial which is somewhat out of date by now but the first chapter, discussing the basics of web page navigation is still relevant, though some examples are no longer online.  But even though they are not there, listening to how I work with them may well give you a good idea.  If you want to listen to the first chapter, let me know and I'll upload the first chapter with some sample pages I use. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: joanne
Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 9:32 AM
Subject: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8 accessible?
 
I am going to be using Windows 8 on my laptop, and I know that one thing I will do to make it read better and easier to find programs is to install Classic Shell.  I use Jaws 16 and NVDA, and I prefer a very straightforward way to find programs or use the Internet which involves as many list views as possible.  Besides the suggestion I was given to use Classic Shell, are there other tips you can give to make this a way to navigate it so it works for me like 7 or even XP as far as the look or style of the program?  I will also be using Outlook Express or Windows Mail, whichever program you may recommend as being more stable.  Any help is very much appreciated.
 
Joanne


Lenron
 

agreed 8.1 the start time was major fast.

On 9/4/15, Marie <magpie.mn@gmail.com> wrote:
File explorer takes some getting used to and you will need to learn how to
customize it somewhat for optimal use with screen readers. There are some
tweaks which I did back when I began using 8.1 and I am not sure I can
remember how to do it. So before I can give you any help on this, I have to
do a little research so I don’t give you bad information. I will try to do
this soon.
Marie


From: joanne
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 11:58 AM
To: TechTalk@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8 accessible?

I appreciate your help, Gene, and I will indeed listen to the tutorials. I
do feel like one of those who doesn't want to leave my comfort zone as far
as the way things are done as programs change; but at the same time I taught
myself a lot about computers and I will certainly experiment and see what I
think.

Thank you.


----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
To: TechTalk@groups.io
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 1:24 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8 accessible?

I'll send you a discussion of how to work with ribbons that I wrote. I'm
not saying you should or shouldn't work with ribbons but I am saying that I
hope you read and try what I explain. the point isn't to get you to work
with ribbons. The point is that I hope the experience shows you that
something you look at without proper explanation may seem confusing but that
that is not necessarily a reason to reject the thing. It may be a reason to
ask on a list with knowledgeable users like this one, for an explanation or
where to find good information.

I'll have the ribbons information available in about twenty minutes.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: joanne
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 12:57 PM
To: TechTalk@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8 accessible?

Yes I would like to see your first chapter. That would help a lot, but
what I meant by list views is that some programs or folders may no longer
have the option of sort by list, and when it's put to, say, details it
doesn't read the way I'm used to reading. And this will open a can of worms
but I won't work with ribbons because it looked really confusing in the
newer Windows Live Mail, and I don't know what their purpose is. I tried
using the Jaws ribbon option but it just didn't make sense, which is one big
reason I stick with Windows Mail and Outlook Express. So anything you have
that could help with the Internet will be appreciated.


----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
To: TechTalk@groups.io
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 12:21 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8 accessible?

I don't know what you mean by wanting as many list views as possible.
You will be a much better Internet user and be able to do more and better by
learning how to navigate efficiently with the page, and not rely on
artificial structures some screen-readers provide as options. There are
good tutorials for learning how to use the Internet well and not be hampered
on artificial structures. I did a tutorial which is somewhat out of date by
now but the first chapter, discussing the basics of web page navigation is
still relevant, though some examples are no longer online. But even though
they are not there, listening to how I work with them may well give you a
good idea. If you want to listen to the first chapter, let me know and I'll
upload the first chapter with some sample pages I use.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: joanne
Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 9:32 AM
To: TechTalk@groups.io
Subject: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8 accessible?

I am going to be using Windows 8 on my laptop, and I know that one thing
I will do to make it read better and easier to find programs is to install
Classic Shell. I use Jaws 16 and NVDA, and I prefer a very straightforward
way to find programs or use the Internet which involves as many list views
as possible. Besides the suggestion I was given to use Classic Shell, are
there other tips you can give to make this a way to navigate it so it works
for me like 7 or even XP as far as the look or style of the program? I will
also be using Outlook Express or Windows Mail, whichever program you may
recommend as being more stable. Any help is very much appreciated.

Joanne
--
Lenron Brown
Cell: 985-271-2832
Skype: ron.brown762