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tips for making Windows 8 accessible?
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joanne
I am going to be using Windows 8 on my laptop, and
I know that one thing I will do to make it read better and easier to find
programs is to install Classic Shell. I use Jaws 16 and NVDA, and I prefer
a very straightforward way to find programs or use the Internet which involves
as many list views as possible. Besides the suggestion I was given to use
Classic Shell, are there other tips you can give to make this a way to navigate
it so it works for me like 7 or even XP as far as the look or style of the
program? I will also be using Outlook Express or Windows Mail, whichever
program you may recommend as being more stable. Any help is very much
appreciated.
Joanne
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Dave Mitchel <dbmitchel@...>
I use W8.1 and the first thing I did was send shortcuts for my programs to
the desktop.
I use windows Live mail and find it very easy to use and navigate. I use
window eyes (which I will not recommend) and NVDA. I do not have classic shell
installed that I know of. I know I did not install it and I am the only one here
to have done it.
I use the 64 bit W8.1 and there are a couple of my old programs (such as
booksplit) which I continue to use.
Dave
From: joanne
Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 9:32 AM
Subject: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8
accessible? I am going to be using Windows 8 on my laptop, and
I know that one thing I will do to make it read better and easier to find
programs is to install Classic Shell. I use Jaws 16 and NVDA, and I prefer
a very straightforward way to find programs or use the Internet which involves
as many list views as possible. Besides the suggestion I was given to use
Classic Shell, are there other tips you can give to make this a way to navigate
it so it works for me like 7 or even XP as far as the look or style of the
program? I will also be using Outlook Express or Windows Mail, whichever
program you may recommend as being more stable. Any help is very much
appreciated.
Joanne
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joanne
Dave or others: I had heard Windows 8.1 has
no start menu that's accessible. So when you put your programs on the
desktop you'd recommend every program I use, since supposedly I won't be able to
get to an actual start menu? And did you find your programs by yourself or
do I need to get sighted help finding my favorite programs? I also heard
there's some kind of annoying bar that pops up; can any tool bars that might get
in the way be removed?
?
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Gene
I don't know what you mean by wanting as many list
views as possible. You will be a much better Internet user and be able to
do more and better by learning how to navigate efficiently with the page, and
not rely on artificial structures some screen-readers provide as options.
There are good tutorials for learning how to use the Internet well and not be
hampered on artificial structures. I did a tutorial which is somewhat out
of date by now but the first chapter, discussing the basics of web page
navigation is still relevant, though some examples are no longer online.
But even though they are not there, listening to how I work with them may well
give you a good idea. If you want to listen to the first chapter, let me
know and I'll upload the first chapter with some sample pages I use.
Gene
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Original Message -----
From:
joanne
Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 9:32 AM
Subject: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8
accessible? I am going to be using Windows 8 on my laptop, and
I know that one thing I will do to make it read better and easier to find
programs is to install Classic Shell. I use Jaws 16 and NVDA, and I prefer
a very straightforward way to find programs or use the Internet which involves
as many list views as possible. Besides the suggestion I was given to use
Classic Shell, are there other tips you can give to make this a way to navigate
it so it works for me like 7 or even XP as far as the look or style of the
program? I will also be using Outlook Express or Windows Mail, whichever
program you may recommend as being more stable. Any help is very much
appreciated.
Joanne
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Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...>
Hi, ]Actually, Windows 8.x Start screen (that’s what it’s called there) is very accessible. The only problem is that you can’t use first letter navigation (as in Windows 7 and earlier) to move to the program you want, although you can display all installed programs. Windows 10 is a different story, however. Cheers, Joseph
From: joanne [mailto:grandma1323@...]
Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 10:19 AM To: TechTalk@groups.io Subject: Re: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8 accessible?
Dave or others: I had heard Windows 8.1 has no start menu that's accessible. So when you put your programs on the desktop you'd recommend every program I use, since supposedly I won't be able to get to an actual start menu? And did you find your programs by yourself or do I need to get sighted help finding my favorite programs? I also heard there's some kind of annoying bar that pops up; can any tool bars that might get in the way be removed?
?
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Loy
You could use Start is back, it costs $2.99
for one computer. It brings back the start menu and you can navigate by first
letter. Check it out at
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Marie
I used Win 7 for quite a few years but after using 8.1 for almost a year I
find that the less you try to make it like 7 the better off you will be in the
long run. At first I got very frustrated with 8 but once I got accustomed to it,
I really like it a lot and find I can navigate and accomplish tasks faster than
with previous OS versions. It boots up so quickly I am sometimes startled by the
speed. It is definitely a learning curve but to me it has been well worth the
change.
I know you will find many others who will disagree with my opinions so you
will have to make up your own mind according to your own level of comfort.
Marie
From: joanne
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 9:32 AM
Subject: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8
accessible? I am going to be using Windows 8 on my laptop, and
I know that one thing I will do to make it read better and easier to find
programs is to install Classic Shell. I use Jaws 16 and NVDA, and I prefer
a very straightforward way to find programs or use the Internet which involves
as many list views as possible. Besides the suggestion I was given to use
Classic Shell, are there other tips you can give to make this a way to navigate
it so it works for me like 7 or even XP as far as the look or style of the
program? I will also be using Outlook Express or Windows Mail, whichever
program you may recommend as being more stable. Any help is very much
appreciated.
Joanne
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joanne
Yes I would like to see your first chapter.
That would help a lot, but what I meant by list views is that some programs or
folders may no longer have the option of sort by list, and when it's put to,
say, details it doesn't read the way I'm used to reading. And this will
open a can of worms but I won't work with ribbons because it looked really
confusing in the newer Windows Live Mail, and I don't know what their purpose
is. I tried using the Jaws ribbon option but it just didn't make sense,
which is one big reason I stick with Windows Mail and Outlook Express. So
anything you have that could help with the Internet will be
appreciated.
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Gene
And for reasons such as given in the below post, I
would suggest asking how to do things in Windows 8, trying them, and then
deciding if you want to try to make Windows 8 like Windows 7.
I don't have Windows 8 so I am not expressing an
opinion about whether you should use it as Windows 8 or make it more like
Windows 7. I'm saying that a lot of blind people resist change in computer
interfaces and spread inaccurate information, thus unintentionally encouraging
others to resist change. As an example, if you ask here and get good
instructions about how to use the search feature in the start menu, you may find
that you want to use it for certain things, even if you want to use the old
Windows 7 start menu for others.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Marie
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8
accessible? I used Win 7 for quite a few years but after using 8.1 for almost a year I
find that the less you try to make it like 7 the better off you will be in the
long run. At first I got very frustrated with 8 but once I got accustomed to it,
I really like it a lot and find I can navigate and accomplish tasks faster than
with previous OS versions. It boots up so quickly I am sometimes startled by the
speed. It is definitely a learning curve but to me it has been well worth the
change.
I know you will find many others who will disagree with my opinions so you
will have to make up your own mind according to your own level of comfort.
Marie
From: joanne
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 9:32 AM
Subject: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8
accessible? I am going to be using Windows 8 on my laptop, and
I know that one thing I will do to make it read better and easier to find
programs is to install Classic Shell. I use Jaws 16 and NVDA, and I prefer
a very straightforward way to find programs or use the Internet which involves
as many list views as possible. Besides the suggestion I was given to use
Classic Shell, are there other tips you can give to make this a way to navigate
it so it works for me like 7 or even XP as far as the look or style of the
program? I will also be using Outlook Express or Windows Mail, whichever
program you may recommend as being more stable. Any help is very much
appreciated.
Joanne
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Gene
I'll send you a discussion of how to work with
ribbons that I wrote. I'm not saying you should or shouldn't work with
ribbons but I am saying that I hope you read and try what I explain.
the point isn't to get you to work with ribbons. The point is that I hope
the experience shows you that something you look at without proper explanation
may seem confusing but that that is not necessarily a reason to reject the
thing. It may be a reason to ask on a list with knowledgeable users like
this one, for an explanation or where to find good information.
I'll have the ribbons
information available in about twenty minutes.
Gene
----- Original Message
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From: joanne
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 12:57 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8
accessible? Yes I would like to see your first chapter.
That would help a lot, but what I meant by list views is that some programs or
folders may no longer have the option of sort by list, and when it's put to,
say, details it doesn't read the way I'm used to reading. And this will
open a can of worms but I won't work with ribbons because it looked really
confusing in the newer Windows Live Mail, and I don't know what their purpose
is. I tried using the Jaws ribbon option but it just didn't make sense,
which is one big reason I stick with Windows Mail and Outlook Express. So
anything you have that could help with the Internet will be
appreciated.
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joanne
I appreciate your help, Gene, and I will indeed
listen to the tutorials. I do feel like one of those who doesn't want to
leave my comfort zone as far as the way things are done as programs change; but
at the same time I taught myself a lot about computers and I will certainly
experiment and see what I think.
Thank you.
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Gene
Here is the link to the ribbons discussion.
You will see a reference to split buttons. If you
want an explanation of split buttons, ask here.
Also, the material I provided only takes a few minutes to
read, though to actually do what is described will take longer. but the
point is that is not much commitment of time. Since I don't use Windows 8,
I'll let others address the list and details problem.
Gene
----- Original Message
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From: joanne
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 12:57 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8
accessible? Yes I would like to see your first chapter.
That would help a lot, but what I meant by list views is that some programs or
folders may no longer have the option of sort by list, and when it's put to,
say, details it doesn't read the way I'm used to reading. And this will
open a can of worms but I won't work with ribbons because it looked really
confusing in the newer Windows Live Mail, and I don't know what their purpose
is. I tried using the Jaws ribbon option but it just didn't make sense,
which is one big reason I stick with Windows Mail and Outlook Express. So
anything you have that could help with the Internet will be
appreciated.
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Dave Mitchel <dbmitchel@...>
JoAnn, I did mine over a period of a couple of years. I found the programs
or installed them llllllusually by myself. with WE it was more difficult as it
does not always read the screen. I would find a program and using the context
key send a short cut to desk top.
Patience was something I used a lot of in learning W8.1 especially after
going from XP to it.
I walked away from my W8 computer more than once and was so happy that 8.1
came out and was a much better system.
you can write to me privately if you choose and I’ll try to walk you
through things.
From: joanne
Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 10:18 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8
accessible? Dave or others: I had heard Windows 8.1 has
no start menu that's accessible. So when you put your programs on the
desktop you'd recommend every program I use, since supposedly I won't be able to
get to an actual start menu? And did you find your programs by yourself or
do I need to get sighted help finding my favorite programs? I also heard
there's some kind of annoying bar that pops up; can any tool bars that might get
in the way be removed?
?
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Dave Mitchel <dbmitchel@...>
I am one who agrees with you about 8.1!
I used 7 at work and did not care for it.
From: Marie
Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 10:56 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8
accessible? I used Win 7 for quite a few years but after using 8.1 for almost a year I
find that the less you try to make it like 7 the better off you will be in the
long run. At first I got very frustrated with 8 but once I got accustomed to it,
I really like it a lot and find I can navigate and accomplish tasks faster than
with previous OS versions. It boots up so quickly I am sometimes startled by the
speed. It is definitely a learning curve but to me it has been well worth the
change.
I know you will find many others who will disagree with my opinions so you
will have to make up your own mind according to your own level of comfort.
Marie
From: joanne
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 9:32 AM
Subject: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8
accessible? I am going to be using Windows 8 on my laptop, and
I know that one thing I will do to make it read better and easier to find
programs is to install Classic Shell. I use Jaws 16 and NVDA, and I prefer
a very straightforward way to find programs or use the Internet which involves
as many list views as possible. Besides the suggestion I was given to use
Classic Shell, are there other tips you can give to make this a way to navigate
it so it works for me like 7 or even XP as far as the look or style of the
program? I will also be using Outlook Express or Windows Mail, whichever
program you may recommend as being more stable. Any help is very much
appreciated.
Joanne
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Gene
Here are Chapters 1 and 2 of my Internet
tutorial.
The tutorial was created before NVDA so no NVDA
commands are given. But the concepts of navigation apply. Many JAWS
quick navigation commands also apply to NVDA. Also, the tutorial was
created long before Window-eyes changed its version of browse mode. Some
things, I'm not sure how many, will not apply. But the information on
understanding the structure and how to navigate web pages and forms still
applies. You will have to learn what commands are specifically different
in the case of Window-eyes than they used to be and whether anything is
different as displayed by Window-eyes. Accept for some commands, I think
you would see the page displayed in a similar way.
When using the tutorial, you will see folders that
say something like JAWS download files. Don't work with them. They
contain the various files that make up the web page. Find and press
enter on the files with htm or html extensions. Don't open gthe folders
that say things like JAWS download form or New York Times home page. Only
open the html files you see in the main folder. The web page will
open in your browser. These are pages as they appeared years ago and they
are mostly very different now. But if you wish, you can follow along and
see what I am describing when I work with the pages.
Since the tutorial is old, newer things such as
active regions and aria landmarks are not discussed. If you want, you can
learn about them elsewhere. I haven't used aria landmarks to any extent
but being a good Internet user entails knowing how to browse
efficiently when such landmarks are not present. They are not present
on a lot of pages.
If you know what I teach in
these chapters, I'm not sure aria landmarks matter to any extent in efficient
page navigation. You can see what you think if you learn about
landmarks.
Gene
From: Gene
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 1:58 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8
accessible? Here is the link to the ribbons discussion.
You will see a reference to split buttons. If you
want an explanation of split buttons, ask here.
Also, the material I provided only takes a few minutes to
read, though to actually do what is described will take longer. but the
point is that is not much commitment of time. Since I don't use Windows 8,
I'll let others address the list and details problem.
Gene
----- Original Message
-----
From: joanne
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 12:57 PM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8
accessible? Yes I would like to see your first chapter.
That would help a lot, but what I meant by list views is that some programs or
folders may no longer have the option of sort by list, and when it's put to,
say, details it doesn't read the way I'm used to reading. And this will
open a can of worms but I won't work with ribbons because it looked really
confusing in the newer Windows Live Mail, and I don't know what their purpose
is. I tried using the Jaws ribbon option but it just didn't make sense,
which is one big reason I stick with Windows Mail and Outlook Express. So
anything you have that could help with the Internet will be
appreciated.
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Marie
File explorer takes some getting used to and you will need to learn how to
customize it somewhat for optimal use with screen readers. There are some tweaks
which I did back when I began using 8.1 and I am not sure I can remember how to
do it. So before I can give you any help on this, I have to do a little research
so I don’t give you bad information. I will try to do this soon.
Marie
From: joanne
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 11:58 AM
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] tips for making Windows 8
accessible? I appreciate your help, Gene, and I will indeed
listen to the tutorials. I do feel like one of those who doesn't want to
leave my comfort zone as far as the way things are done as programs change; but
at the same time I taught myself a lot about computers and I will certainly
experiment and see what I think.
Thank you.
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Lenron
agreed 8.1 the start time was major fast.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 9/4/15, Marie <magpie.mn@gmail.com> wrote:
File explorer takes some getting used to and you will need to learn how to --
Lenron Brown Cell: 985-271-2832 Skype: ron.brown762
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